Thorp Air Command - T18.net

Chuck,

Great job on the paint.

Joe Gauthier

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Joe Gauthier

Thanks gents for all your kind words. Please don't take them back when you see it up close!

Chuck

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Chuck Kincer
Richmond, Me
575CK
KIWI

Priorities, Chuck.....We would never do that upon closer inspection of our better halves, so rest assured none of us would ever say that about an aircraft.........

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

How about letting us all admire your worrk by coming to Elizabeth City in June. [:)]

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Scott Hinton
Elizabeth City, NC
N78WG

Thanks Frase.

@ Scott, this sounds like fun, I've had this on my calendar since it was first mentioned. I have to wait and see if my odd schedule will allow it to happen.

Chuck

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Chuck Kincer
Richmond, Me
575CK
KIWI

Rich, others,

Thanks for the write-ups on your adventure in painting. I'm at the same point now. Sounds like lots of folks even beyond the Thorp group like the polyurethane. I'll consider that except I'm concerned about the toxic aspects of isocyanates. I looked at TCP Global and they show AU and AE, while you mention "AUE". It's getting confusing. Is the Acrylic Urethane a type of "polyurethane" that's so dangerous? Did the stuff you used have the isocyanates? If so, did you use the hood/forced air respirator, or get along without it outdoors? Maybe I'll just do a safe primer and filler then take it to a shop for the rest. On the other hand, I hear the high-priced good stuff is difficult for repairs. You evidently like the way yours can be buffed out.

Can you say what your primer was? Is that something with isocyanates also that I'll breathe and die using? The paint-supplier pro here wants to sell me 2-part primer for priming, another primer for surfacing, and another primer for sealing. Oh, brother! I've painted cars before these other types came around; now I don't know what to think. That's when I had the charcoal-canister respirator. Can I assume anything that has a catalyst or hardener is the toxic stuff? Even if I use the ole fashioned enamel and simple respirator, I read not to paint over the old fashioned zinc-chromate primer. Anyone that understands these things, please join in. I'm happy to do the job myself, and will be happier to get that much closer to flying next year!

Thanks, Les Krumel
Albuquerque

Hi Les, TCP Global product is a good product, Its probably one of the best bangs for the buck. The Urathane is a 2- part system and it is easy to use. As far as saftey is concerned, its only as dangerous as the person holding the gun. I have always used a simple air filter for spraying Urathane, but the cartriges on the filter are for filtering this type of material. TCp has an epoxy Primer, Used as primer, it is heavy and high build. The Primer can be reduced and used as a sealer over bare metal, even Aluminum, when it is reduced it is much lighter and one Medium wet coat will cover all. Epoxy is formulated for a bare metal surface, so it bites the alum very well when applied. I used 1 med wet coat on the alum and Fiber Glass, it is good stuff. Scitchbrite the next day and then you are ready for your color. I also etched all bare surfaces before coating,,,,,Dan

Ditto what Dan Said about TCP. I used their ISO Free (no isocynates) high build primer. Etched the aluminum with Aluminum prep and then applied alodine, then shot the ISO Free primer. Lightly sanded the primer and then used the TCP AU (acrylic urethane) single stage paint. It was their "Restoration Shop" brand. The AU has isocynates when mixed with the hardner. I shot the paint in the driveway using a 3M respirator. It west sanded nicely and buffed right out. No need to wet sand and buff if you are an expert painter ! After pricing Duponts Concept One paint at almost $400.00 a gallon, TCP was an easy pick.

FWIW I bought one of those HF portable garages and set it up in the drivway to use a a spray booth. I even bought a "Breath-Cool fresh air system with a hood to use in the "Booth." After about an hour of spraying I found the booth did not have enough light and I was draging around 2 sets of hoses...one for the gun and one for the hood. Constantly running into the hoses and trying to keep them off the painted parts. Using the hood I felt like a deep sea diver and my visibility was limited. So the garage came down, the Breath-Cool respirator went back in the box (I'll sell it for 1/2 price) and I layed sheets of plastic in the driveway and began to shoot there. I also bought a DeVillbis $150 HVLP spray gun to use and gave up on that and went to the HF $19.99 spray gun and that worked a lot better.

RB

Les - good advice from Dan and Rich - having said that, I too got information overload/analysis paralysis on the paint - tho I enjoy painting, when it boiled down to getting it done, I opted to pull the outer wings and (illegally late at night) trailer it from the hangar over to the auto painter and he painted it in the booth. In hindsight, I am really glad I did it that way - he knew the business, had all the right protective gear, had two guys - one on each side of the fuselage always keeping a wet edge - there are very few flaws, and those that exist are due to my prep - I could not have accomplished near the result in my garage or hangar. We painted the base color on a friday night, cooked it and applied the color trim saturday afternoon - moved it back to the airport early sunday morning and it was up flying the next weekend.
I bought the paint - used Sherwin Williams Genesis M - Acrylic Urethane - the only way to go - holds up to extreme UV - I liked their colors and I got a reasonable deal on it, tho spent $700 on paint and an extra $100 on some matched color rattle cans for any touch up necessary down the road. The painter charged me $2,500.00 and that included prepping most of the fuselage (sanding - I did not strip), as I was running out of time - it was money well spent in my case.

Ok guys, TCP Global paint it is.

The thought is a quart of the 2k high-build iso-free primer with pint of hardener to do just the fuselage, center wing, and tail feathers. I'll do the single-stage AU paint, too. I like the idea of being able to buffing down the road if it loses it's shine. Already have phosphoric acid (etchant) with Scotchbrite pads, and alodine for the metal treatment. Folding wings and spinner will be polished, but if that doesn't go well, I'll paint them too. How does that go? "Paint covers a multitude of sins..."

Thanks so much for the help, now I can get on with it. Don't hold your breath, but I'll post pictures when it's done.
Les.

Les: A qt. of the primer might not be enough ? You need that extra 10% for the learning experience. You are going to have to pay for ground UPS shipping ( I think ), better to have a bit too much than not enough and have to reorder and pay for shipping AGAIN ! You will have to probably pay the same shipping on a qt. as a gallon and have the extra in case you decide to paint the outer wings, etc. ?

Too bad you are not coming to KVIS, I would bring the paint up to the flyin and save you the shipping !

RB

Thanks for the offer Rich.

You CA guys got an edge on a lot of what it takes for a T18: suppliers, other Thorpies, etc. I did get a tour of the Lockford shop once. And every time I read about the events I'm a little jealous too. I may be speculating, but if I'm at the point of painting then there's a possiblility the end is in sight (?) Maybe next year, or the 50th anniversary.

Say, what color type is your red? Ford Tractor Red seems nice and vivid. I'd also like the brightest white without other tints. The TCP website has a good variety but they're not quite easy to distinguish. I'll get grease remover too; do I need reducer for the primer or paint?

Les.

Les: I used the "Hot Rod Red." Funny thing about the reducer, I looked at their site and it is not included in the kit ? They say it is optional ? It was included in my paint kit. I used the reducer in my kit...about 1/2 of what was required. It sprayed better. It is hard to see the colors on line. I went in person to TCP and saw the color samples in person and it was still a tuff choice. If I had to do it over again a "richer red" would be in order. Ford Tractor Red ? Maybe ? Any color you pick would be good !

RB

Rich makes a good point. I found that TCP's online representation of the colors didn't accurately reflect the actual colors. The white I purchased from TCP I thought was more of a brilliant white and what I received was more of an antique white. Although I was lacking in the art of painting (still am) and have never painted anything before, I was very happy with their 2 part paint process.

As most of you guys know my son and I restore antique cars. I have used TCP paint in the past and have not been satified with the results. To meet California EPA their paint has about half the solids that the rest of the manufacters have. To achieve enough depth in paint several coats need to be applied. THis is the reason the paint chips don't match. I used DuPont products exclusive. Bob and I used Dupont Imron 5000 on our Thorps with good results. When you buff uretane you will loose some of the "wet luster" look.
Frazier has the right answer...work something out with the local paint shop and not necessary an auto body shop.
I found that car painters can't paint airplanes with good results.