Thorp Air Command - T18.net

Thought you guys would like to see this. Look in your area, maybe we can get some of these guys off their butts!

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Oh and by the way ...

Don Doubleday .. what's a Thorp=TS-18CW?!?!?!

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Also ... David Read ... you've reached your Thorp max allocated limit!

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Sorry to offend, I had kept a pretty good secret till now. I plan for this to be a temporary condition.

There be a heap of T-18 sky machines out there ! Must be a cloaking device as I don't see many of them ?

RB

I'm still shopping, in fact I'm checking one out Friday that's right in my back yard.
Seems there are Thorps all over. I haven't had trouble finding one for sale, just finding the 'right' one.

Lee,

We had a discussion about my TS-18CW awhile back and I'm surprised you've forgotten. I'm sorry Thorpies, but this will be a long one and I apologize.

When I bought my project from a friend, (Yes! I have friends) the newsletters, John Thorp's T-18 drawings and Lu Sunderland's modifications drawings came with it. When I did get started working it, it got me to thinking (which sometimes gets me in trouble) and decided to use the drawings for the more complex Lu Sunderland's modifications as well.

As I saw it then when I spoke with some of the existing local and international Thorpies and still see it today; John Thorp did design a good simple airplane and many of us did some good modifications and some not so good modifications to it. Lu Sunderland came up with some good ideas - note that I said IDEAS.

Here is basically my reasons for the "TS-18CW" in question as I explained them to you before.

John Thorp designed the T-18 and some time later in life, Lu Sunderland came up with ideas, approached John with them and I can just imagine John going ballistics about someone wanting to complicate his simple design. John and Lu as I understand worked for the same outfit in those yesteryears and saw one another on a daily basis. After many discussions which we will probably never know about, John decided that Lu did have some good ideas (just like the perfect Country & Western song). Lu provided John with some basic drawings, John would review them and crunched the numbers for Lu. No drawings for actual modification ever took place nor were released without John's reviews, figuring the finite elements and approving.

In my humble opinion and I'm sticking with it, there is no such thing as S-18. I agree there are T-18, T-18CW and go ahead and add my TS-18CW like to the group. Every airplane project resembling yours, mine and many others currently being built, catching dust in garages and hangars like my project did for awhile and those actually flying are T-18. Again, in my opinion, while I have seen some drawings bearing the S-18 nomenclasure, the S-18 is (which could lead to another set of discussions) Mike Archer's idea of dedicating his life to and I have a hard time understanding the S-18, T-18 rights.

Lee, I truly believe that every so called S-18, T-18CW and even my TS-18CW is in fact T-18s. While my airplane has all the features noted in John Thorp's and Lu Sunderland's drawings, IT IS NOT an S-18. In fact, I believe every so called S-18 out there should be re-registered as TS-18CW.

In conclussion: When I decided to register my airplane I designated it as "TS-18CW to give credit where credit was due. "T" for Thorp, "18" for John Thorp's eighteenth design "S" and "CW" for Lu Sunderland modifications and convertible wings.

Now! you know... "The rest of the story"!

thanks for the explanation don ... I was really just ribbing ya though. I like the all inclusiveness of your model name. Certainly covers all the bases!

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Just for sake of accuracy ...

Don you're right, an S-18 is synonymous with a T-18CW, thats how we got on this conversation a while back. If I recall that's why I was kidding around with you back then because calling something a TS-18CW is redundant (much like chicken fried chicken). I'm pretty sure you built your airplane from T-18 drawings with the Sunderland supplements which makes it a T-18CW but thats really not important, and you are of course able to call it whatever you like. It is your airplane after all!

As far as the S-18 goes, it predates mike archers involvement in the kit business by at least a decade. When John Thorp pulled the plans off the market in the mid eighties Lu Sunderland was given permission to rebrand the T-18 drawings plus his supplements as the "Sunderland Aircraft S-18". Those plans were sold my Ken knowles, Phil tucker and much later mike archer.

So I would disagree that there is no such thing as an S-18, and I'm pretty sure those who are building off the Sunderland drawings would disagree as well.

_________________
Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Back on topic: It will be interesting to see the list after the current FAA re-registering takes place. I see several that are no longer with us.

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

Lee,

Thanks for the comment and your point well taken. I am glad you asked about it in the forum which gave me the oppportunity to esplen it for the rest of the Thorpies, Thorpette and other forum visitors who might have had a question about it. I do; however, need to make a retraction about a comment I made regarding John, Lu and Mike.

With all the stories and comments I've heard over the years, somehow I had it in my mind that John and Lu were bussom buddies, pals and co-workers, when in fact...as I was set straight by one of my mentors, hangar buddy and best friend, Ken Morgan who pointed out that John and Lu each lived from one extreme in California to the other extreme in New York..."Get a rope"...Just kidding New Yorkers. I have family up there!

Additionally, when I looked at the newsletters and drawings that came with my project, a letter from Lu was included in which he mentioned and descrived the T-18C and T-18W, but no S-18 which I took it to be one of Mike Archer's creations. Sorry Mike, my mistake. All of Lu's drawings which range from 100 to 330 were titled T-18c. I never saw an S-18 drawing until Robert Mardis came to my home with some of his. My drawings from John Thorp had S/N 1178, while Lu Sunderland were S/N 114.

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In CowTown USA,
Don D-Day
NX18DD

IIRC T-18C = Convertable Wing. T-18W = Widebody. T-18CW = Convertable Wing & Widebody

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Matt Smith
Des Moines, IA
55RC

To Bob's comment, there are also several that are almost impossible to find. For example ken knowles airplanes were all called "ken ships", I'm sure there are several "tigers", smith-18's and builder custom names out there that bring the total up to around 400.

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

I call em all Thorps!!! And I like em all!! That bent wing and pointed nose that makes up most of the Fuse is a work of art. It's like a rocket sled on rails, don't forget the trustee wing put it in the mix!! Ira and I had a conversation in the hanger today about all the configgerations,and in the end we agreed that they are all fantastic! Ira drives a T and I drive an S, but at the end of the day we both fly Thorps and we drive em with pride. Dan

The T-18 (N295RS) I flew for more than 10 years did not have a "C" convertible wing. It was the second one Richard Snelson built so he used the fixed wing (& narrow body). But the more rounded nose ribs of Lou's design were used. Recently there was a drawing posted on the JT/LS configurations superimposed which may have helped clarrify understanding. It's my opinion that the LS rib shape will give about a 5mph lower stall speed (I tested early at altitude). I got 58mph (ias), but at 57mph (ias)[glow][/glow] it went straight down as the stabilator is blanked off with full flaps.

The "kit" I have for sale has been called a T/S-18. But really it has a fixed wing spar and a wide body fuselage. So I suppose it is a T-18W (with the "S" nose ribs). It could be built as a T-18CW with spars needed for the convertible. It could be made with a tricycle landing gear (as some have done with a gear retro fit kit conversion from Classic). At $12.5k, the kit is a bargain (with engine).

Many thanks to Les Krummel for the great write up on gear welding and metalurgy. I'm in agreement with the many comments about the cross member weld cracks being unimportant.

Tom Worth - Tacoma, WA