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Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
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Author:  Ian Ahner [ Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
Typically, I am used to the operating limitations on experimentals to have two separate points something to the effect of the following.

1) “Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated over densely populated areas or in congested airways.”

2) “This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by Air Traffic Control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the surface.”

Between those two, there is never much of a problem. We all maintain that kind of distance above things anyway, or at least we should.

The Thorp that I just purchased, however, does not have anything like #2 in the operating limitations. It only has the first one.

Would this suggest that in this specific aircraft, when planning a long cross country, I cannot pass over a congested area even up at 10,000 feet? Would it also suggest that I cannot fly into an airport that is located in a place that requires flight over congested areas?

I know that in the real world, this isn't really a big deal, but strictly speaking what is the law here? Also, does anyone here know what it takes to ammend operating limitations? Is it even possible?

Cheers,
-Ian
Author:  James Grahn [ Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
Experimental operating limitations are a standard form letter that the FAA updates every now and then. Every experimental in the US has the same letter with some paragraphs deleted. The older letters prohibit flight in conjested airspace and airways. The current letter does not. I have not heard the FAA persuing anyone for flying in congested airspace. They would not know which letter you have until a ramp check. I was able to change the Tigress Ops Limits to the new letter several years ago. The Monster aircraft that I have been working on had the old letter. It passed inspection today for the new one. It's as simple as contacting your local FSDO and requesting a change. There is some paperwork and an inspection, but I have found the FSDO very favorable toward changing.
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Author:  Ryan Allen [ Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
My FSDO came up and inspected mine (after I reached out to them) for a replacement AW cert and updated op limits. It was easy and worth it to get the updated op limits.
Author:  thorpdrvr [ Mon May 02, 2016 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
I recently did an engine and prop swap on my T-18. I revised my ops limitations to the latest version that only requires 5 hours of test flight after a major revision. The following link has good info. I sent my paperwork to the nearest FSDO with a completed letter and form. About a week later I made an appointment with a FSDO guy and went in to swap old paperwork for new limitations. Was pretty easy and did not require an aircraft inspection. I don't think he even knew what a T-18 looked like.


http://209.83.103.25/home/govt/issues/o ... ations.asp
Author:  Ian Ahner [ Wed May 04, 2016 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
Thanks a million guys!

I will add that paperwork to somewhere in the bottom third of my to-do list.

I appreciate all the insight. I figured the change was possible, but I didn't anticipate it to be so painless.
Author:  James Grahn [ Wed May 04, 2016 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Operating Limitations and Congested Areas
It is painless, well, almost. Having said that, I picked up the new Ops Limits yesterday . They do have the two previously discussed paragraphs. As I said tho, I have never seen anyone pursued for this. I even asked the FAA rep about it. His response was that I could fly anywhere I'm qualified to fly.
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