Thorp Air Command - T18.net

I recently found out that a friend of mine has an old set of T18 plans. I'm not sure how old they are. Apparently they were handed down to him many years ago from an EAA chapter or something at no cost to him.

While I'm really interested in the CW or S-18. I was wondering if it would be worth my while to borrow theses T18 plans to study. Are they similar enough to the S-18 plans except of course the wing to get a good idea of what I might be getting myself into IF I decide to do a S18 project?

Tom,
Yes, the T-18 plans will give you an excellent idea of what you would be up against. The early folding wing Thorps were built from the T-18 plans along with supplemental sheets for the wing changes. Other than a few dimensions in length & width, the fuselage of the S-18 is identical. The tail feathers are the same.

_________________
John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

Yes, I would highly recommend studying those plans. As John says, most of them are identical. You will get a good feel for the S plans. But your first look will give you the impression you can't do it. They were drawn by an aero engineer. As such, things like total dimensions have to add up. So when you see a dimension out to the 1000th, or even 10,000th, don't be worried. As the saying goes, measure with a micrometer and cut it with a meat axe! You can build this airplane if you want to and apply yourself.
Cubes

Looking at the plans you will notice that some are drawn to FULL scale . Go to KINKOS (or whatever it is called now) , make several copies that you can cut out the part in question and trace on practice material and have at it . It will teach you radius making using a disc sander , cutting out the part with the band saw , drilling accurate holes , etc. and most important not taking off too much material to make the part unusable . As my wood shop teacher (Mr. Trone) in Jr. HS said..."Mr. Brazell , cut to the line , but don't cut the line away ! Good advice today even for metal working .

I'm a civil engineer. So having dimensions that add up make sense to me. If they didn't I'd go a bit crazy.

I really have to take a look at tools that I really need to realistically take this on.

I would anticipate buying the sub-kits for the S-18 so I would hope that would minimize some of the bigger more difficult parts with expensive tooling.

However It seems like I would need a band saw and a table disc sander.

If building from the S18 kits, would I need a metal bending brake? And if so what size?

Also what type/quality of rivet gun would be recommended. They seem to vary quite a bit in price and what may be the best source for them?

At Oshkosh I picked up the ATS, Aircraft spruce, Wag Aero and Wicks catalogs. I somehow missed picking up an Avery catalog. Are there other or better sources with better prices???

I may have to to out to craigslist and ebay.

It would appear that I might be able to construct the tail feathers from the T18 plans to give me an economical start on this. Would that make any sense? Or should a person start on some other part of the plane first to build up experience? I think I read somewhere that the vertical fin is one of the more difficult procedurally to construct on the plane. Also the flying tail seems like such a critical component would it make sense to construct it later in the process after gaining building experience?

Do copy machines actually produce 100% reproductions? I thought or maybe in the old days that the photo copy was actually like 99% or something and not a true 100% or 1:1 scale?

Sorry for the questions and I may be getting off topic from my original post.

You do not need a bending brake. A brake just makes it easier and more accurate. Anything that has to be bent can be made between two 2 x 4s. They come with a nice round edge that you need for radiusing a bend. I use a 4X rivet gun from ATS. Then you just tone it down with an adjustable valve on the intake. I bought their combo gun and rivet set package. Makes a nice way to store thing too. You really could get away without a band saw and disc sander as well. Same thing, just makes your work quicker and more accurate. You can make copies and measure the copy to see if it is accurate.
The S and T tails are the same. You just need to make sure the plans have the additions that John came out with later to make them safe. Those are posted on this site.
I'll PM the rest of your answers.
Cubes

Having the right tools will make your building experience more enjoyable . Cubes is right a brake is not necessary , but if you can pick one up for the right price do it . Not quite sure how I would have cut out some of the parts from stock w/o the help of a band saw ? Cutoff wheel is too big and hard to handle when trying to cut "curves ." A disc sander is a fairly inexpensive piece of equipment and is something I used all the time during the building process . You could also use a sanding block , belt sander or a bunch of files to get the same results , but it is not only time consuming it also will develop your arm muscles into that of an ape ! I think we have been over where to buy some of the hand tools...

1. Spruce
2. Brown Aviation tools
3. Avery
4. ATS

Unless it sez made in the USA look carefully at the tool as it may be a spin off from HF at 2-3 times the cost .

Let's forget the big ticket items for now and just go with the basics.

1. Good quality drill and bits
2. Good quality rivet gun and rivet setting set . I think I got mine from ATS and it was a 3x gun?
3. Basic bucking bar set . Usually consists of about 4-5 bars in the set .
4. Good quality rivet squeezer and rivet set . The quality runs from the Made in Commie Crap to USA Made .
5. As many #40/30 clecos you can afford .
6. Deburring tool .

When the time comes try and cut out some of the larger pieces from stock with hand tools and then go find someone that has the band saw and disc sander to try . I think you will be sold . Every builder is going to build up his tool kit with the basics and then go from there and either buy the other larger tools or find someone that has them .

Again if you go to one of the EAA sheet metal workshops , they will have all the basic tools for you to use and recommend good quality tools and then you can make a decision what to buy initially . Hard to tell you what tool company to go with and who has the best prices . Get the catalogs and start comparing .

This is posted for Rob Skillman, son of the late T-18er, Lee Skillman:

My father, Lee Skillman, was a long-time EAA member and Sun ’n Fun supporter. He passed away about 7 years ago, and I inherited most of his tools, including a wealth of Cleco (sp?) fasteners for sheet metal work. I’m preparing to move, and I came across these, realizing that I will probably never use them. I understand that they’re kind of expensive, so I’mtrying to find a home for them, at a good price for all.

My phone number is (727) 656-7602. Rob Skillman.

_________________
Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL