Thorp Air Command - T18.net

OK I'm sure there are never too many tools. But if a person was going to contemplate starting to build a T-18CW/S18

What are the "must have" tools?

What other things are needed and what would be the best way to start to accumulate the items needed. For example bucking bars, rivet squeezers etc? I think I heard that Avery tools or something sells a metal workers "starter kit" or some such thing. Is that a good choice or what other recommendations do you folks have?

I have a drill press, 20 gallon 3 HP air compressor, pnumatic drill, vice and normal hand tools like electric drills hammers, mallets etc.

In partticular the more expensive tools/items. Like a bending brake how big?

If a person bought the sub kits for the S-18 would many of these more elaborate or expensive tools not be needed?

I suppose this newbie question has been asked before but I didn't notice the question on the formum topic list. Or I missed it.

Thanks in advance.

there is a $3400 Isham tool kit for sale for $2900 over on the Vans Air Force web site. Guy said he would pay shipping and he'll throw in a flaring tool that costs about $100 I think. Seems like a pretty good deal.

Save your money and buy want you need and not what a tool salesman wants you to have. I started my S18 with 100 different sizes of clecos and as the project progressed added another couple hundred. Bought a used 4x rivet gun and a couple of buckings bars, made most of my bars. Hand drill, Drill press, bandsaw, misc. hand tools that most tinkerers already have, I already had a 52" shear and box brake, 40 and 30 drills, rulers-straight edge, dial calipers, tin snips (straight,left,right). Memory serves me I had about $150 in tools not counting the shear and brake. Most builders over buy and never use half the tools in the kit

Bill is right . Don't overbuy . If I could pick out the tools I used the most...

1. A few hundred #40 clecos . A few hundred #30 clecos .

2. A good rivet gun and bucking bar set .

3. A band saw with a metal cutting blade . 12 inch min.

4. A belt disc sander ( 9 inch dia. min.)

5. A very good hand drill (battery and or air) with a good supply of #30 and #40 bits . A drill press is also handy .

6. An air compressor that can handle the load .

7. A pneumatic cut off tool .

A brake and shear are nice , but hopefully you can use one of your buddy's at the airport . Stay away from the cheap bench top "C" clamp brake units . You can always add the tools that you need as you go .

RB

What about things like:

- Rivet cutter any brand or supplier recommended?
- rivet squeezer and what size?
- pnumatic metal sheers
- are there any particular shape or size etc of bucking bars that are especially helpful?


- What size brake and sheer and what is a good quality source?

Above was listed a belt disc sander. Are you saying to get both a belt AND a 9" disc sanders.

Any specific brand or type of drill bit source you would recommend?

Sorry to keep beating this horse. Bit if I'm really going to jump into the metal aircraft building pool, I want to be prepared a little bit to ensure I stay afloat and not drown right from the start.

I also want to accumulate this stuff so that when I do take the plunge my main costs will be materials or kits and not be hammered with large tool costs initially at the same time.

Rivet cutter . No particular brand to recommend . Rarely used one .

Buy a USA made squeezer . S/S with at least a 3 inch yolk . Available at all the major suppliers . Spruce , Brown tools , ATS , etc.

Never used a pneumatic shear. Have one , never used it .

You can buy a small bucking bar kit that will have 95% of the bars that you will use . Again avail. from all the major tool suppliers .

Brake/shear . You are wasting your $$$ on any thing less than 48" . Stay away from HF tools . Try E-Bay for some good used USA made iron .

A disc/belt sander combo . I have a Sears unit I bought in 1974 that is still going strong . I used the belt portion of the combo on occasion (it is good to trim long pieces of aluminum down to the scribe line) , but you might be able to get away with just a good 9-12 inch floor/bench mount sander . E-Bay has USA made Sears units at a good price . I can still get parts for my 1974 disc/sander combo .

I get my cobalt drill bits from Brown tools .

RB

These pics might clear up a few questions you have . You can see the Craftsman Belt/Disc sander . The sander , drill press , band saw , bench grinder are all USA made heavy iron Craftsman tools that I bought back in 1974 . You can't buy them at Sears anymore , but you can find good deals on E-Bay . The brake I got from ENCO and it was a clearance item with free shipping, $200.00 . Made in ROC and not China and you can tell the difference in quality . I had to make radius shoes for the brake . The Shear I got off E-Bay and it is a China knock off , but works just fine for thin gauge aluminum that we use . The band saw I used all the time (metal blade with a speed reducer) . You really need a good quality bench vise . I used it a lot to bend steel parts with the help of an acetylene torch to heat the steel (canopy latch , etc.) . The Craftsman drill press I used a lot when it came to drill repeated holes in the wing beams . Made a jig that allowed the parts to roll right thru straight and true . Much easier than a hand held drill !

RB

Gloria bought me a rivet gun at a yard sale for 2bucks, I think she paid about that for my hand shears at the same sale, it has built 2planes and is ready for the third. Never paid for a bucking bar, made my own from steel plate drop. had a 5hp compressor and 2-3lb coffee cans full of Cleo's and a pair of Cleo pliers. Plugged in the 3/8 hand drill and I was ready to go, oops forgot, I had a couple real sharp Bastard files,still got em. The wife and I completely riveted up the Fusealage one forth of July weekend as I Had an extra day off and she is good lookin, so I very much enjoyed the help,the tacos and maybe a little smooching ........Dan

Enough about the tools and the airplane , let's see some pics of the smooching !

RB

Back to tools

What type of source or material should I buy as far as drill bits.

I understand that I need mostly #30 and #40 bits. But what type last and are quality so I don't make things any harder on myself than needed?

I assume I will be using mainly air drills correct?

Also what is a fair number to get started for clecos as well. I have a couple handfuls now which I know will be far too few. And I suppose there is never too many. But is 100 of each 30 and 40 back decent start? Or more?

Is a pneumatic cutt off wheel pretty essential or is that only an occasional use tool?

What type of deburring tool is recommended?

River squeezer. Is a single 3inch yoke good or is it worth to have both 1.5 "and 3" yokes?

Should I get a whole set of dimple dies and squeezer dies, or should I just get certain one or two sizes?

Understand I am trying to stay very budget conscience so I want to balance between going overboard and being penny wise and pound foolish!

I would just get a hand full of 30 and 40s. I find the 6 inch very useful. I will always have two or three foot long as well. Most of my drilling has been from a Dewalt electric drill. Be advised, an air drill with the same bit can produce a larger hole than electric. Don't ask me how I know.
For deburring, I use a 1/4 inch bit spun Between my fingers.
I have an angle grinder air tool with Roloc sanding disks and Scotchbright disks to smooth edges.
The only squeezer I have used is the large one 3 inch I think.
Cubes

I think a lot depends on where you are building....and who are your neighbors.....and what tools they have......and what they drink.....

_________________
Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

Rivet Squeezer question.

How many rivets can you really do with a squeezer for both dimpling and setting the rivets?

Reason I'm asking is that Cleveland has a really nice light and MUCH easier to set rivets squeezer. They sell a kit with dies and 3" yoke and sets etc for $420. But ATS sells a "pro-kit" with both 1.5" AND 3" yoke, 17 die set for like $270. But it is on sale now for $230. (I think Fathers day sale.) I wonder how much the "show special" will be at Oshkosh????

I sure like the Cleveland squeezer. But is it worth the extra $150 to $190 for how many I might be able to use a squeezer?

I could get a new C-Frame new for like $220. If I went with the ATS "pro" sqeezer I could also buy the C-Frame table for nearly nearly the same price as the Cleveland sqeezer kit alone!

Come to think of it, is the C-Frame table worth the investment? Or am I better off saving some money for some other tools?

You'll probably hold in one hand the amount of rivets you can squeeze with a squeezer.,building a T18, the rest will be bucked. Buy a good 4x gun and sets and you will find you never have the right or enough bucking bars. I've got 5 gallon buckets full. C frame is a good investment, just takes a little practice to get good with it. Stay away from these "RV Tool Kits" as you will not use half of the tools. I built my S18 with a rivet gun and bucking bars totally, could not afford a squeezer at the time. Borrow a squeezer from some one.

Good advice Bill.

I thought that all the rivets on the outside of the root and tip and trailing edge skin could be done with a squeezer. But that is still a pretty small percentage of all the rivets to be set.

i do know someone who build a RV-9. And he doesn't have a current project. So I suspect he has a lot of tools that he would let me borrow, or buy from him used. As I suspect they are collecting dust now that his RV-9 is flying.

I think I may need to go visit said fellow and buy him a few beers. Maybe if I can feed him the right number of beers, the price of the tools will get better and better >:D