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| Dual brakes http://t18.net/thorpforum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8398 |
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| Author: | Jeff J [ Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dual brakes |
What are the popular setups for dual brakes in a Thorp? |
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| Author: | Rich Brazell [ Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
I thought about it then I read somewhere in the NL's from the early early years that you need to weigh who is going to be in the right seat ? Other than a CFI for a BFR or giving dual I could not justify the cost and maint. of putting brakes for the right seat .  Besides I fly solo 99% of the time .  If you really want to crawl down there to install/service the little darlings please send pics of your adventure .  RB 
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| Author: | fytrplt [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
I would take a field trip to a Cessna 150 and see how they plumb it. The Ken Brock removable floor model would come in handy for the installation. I will say, in my 2950 hours ofThorp time, I never felt a yearning for dual brakes. |
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| Author: | Jeff J [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
The goal is having a left hand throttle. Simply moving the throttle is okay but I would prefer the airplane be flyable from both sides. I spend enough time in single and tandem seat airplanes that it isn’t uncommon for me to solo a Skyhawk or 150 from the right seat. No reason to not do the same with the Thorp. I was thinking dual throttles isn’t likely to be easier than dual brakes to install and more people would be interested in the dual brakes if I ever decide to sell. As luck would have it, I have easy access to a 150. Thanks for the idea. I may not be able to edit something I posted that I don’t like after the fact but at least I have limited ability to delete and start over. |
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| Author: | Jeff Blanton [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
I have done it by using an external resivore to RH master cylinder inlet, then take hoses from RH exit to pilot inlet. Pilot exit to brake. It works, but hard to bleed and more chance of leaks. When I do it again I will do like the early Beech King Airs did. They use a shuttle valve in the line between pilot and copilot master cylinders. Only downside is both people can’t use brakes at same https://www.flowfitonline.com/hydraulic ... e-valve-14 Just an example of a valve. Don’t know if that exact one is suitable. Jeff |
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| Author: | James Grahn [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
I may have a drawing of it somewhere. Lemme look. Cubes |
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| Author: | Rich Brazell [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
Pretty sure there was a drawing in the old NL's . I have no idea which one ? RB
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| Author: | Jeff J [ Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
I finally got a chance to look through the news letters and there is a couple of ideas in there. There was also mention of adding dual brakes to the aircraft drawings. I haven’t had a chance to look to see if it actually happened but I have the current drawings unless something has changed in the last couple of years. |
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| Author: | Cirskrap [ Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
My T18 has Cleveland duel brakes but they are not working anywhere near as well as the Cleveland brakes on my C140. The T18 brakes hold on run up but once rolling are basically useless as hard as dried out bag of cement powder, no pedal movement. Any suggestions, I'm far from being good with resolving brake problems. Attached is a picture of the brake ID tag. Also the brake pedal at the top of the rudder pedals seem very high making it necessary to lift your heels off the floor to operate the brakes. not good for control, is this original design? The pedals are just a flat plate design extending up on from the top of the rudder pedals. 
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| Author: | leewwalton [ Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
If they hold for run up they're better than some T-18's I've flown. You do have to lift your feet off the floor to get to the top of the brakes which incidentally is where they're affective ... trying to leave your feet on the floor board and using your toes on anything but the top of the pedal does not do much (look at the mechanics of the pedals ... not much force achieved a few inches off of the pivot point, you need all you can get which is the top of the pedal). That being said, hard braking is not a good alternative to just controlling the aircraft with the rudder/tailwheel. I generally use the brakes for run up and that's about it. |
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| Author: | Fraser MacPhee [ Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
It took me a little bit to get used to the toe brakes of my first T-18 - felt way different than the C-150s and hershey bars I had been flying for years. As far as the C-140 goes..... Having flown 5 T-18s as well as my own for about 1100 hours, and am currently teaching a primary student (16 hours so far and he is almost ready for solo) in his newly acquired C-140, I can say that the two aircraft are very different when it comes to ground handling. Every T-18 I have flown has been well aligned with the main gear and had good brake setups (with one exception that had a bent rudder pedal and required a little extra finesse) The 140 I am teaching in is quite docile and a joy to fly. Landing requires very little input from my tender tootsies, while the T-18s I have flown require a little more attention. Nothing to be scared of, but I think more of a function of speed - The 140 Vref is 56 Knots and a full stall touchdown at the 3 point attitude is 44 knots (vs 58 in a T-18) The rudder of a 140 is a little bigger and the plane a little heavier. The 140 just kind of mosies (technical aerodynamical vernaculite) down the centerline after touchdown while slowing down with very little brake input. Good crosswind technique obviously helps. The T-18 needs some attention after landing as there is less weight on the tail, less rudder area and it is a little more "short coupled",,,,meaning the tail has a smaller circumference line to travel as the CG of the plane decides it wants to get in front of the main gear and go backwards down the remainder of the runway. This is not meant to say that the T-18 is in any way difficult.....it just means that because you are going from a joyous "low and slow" high wing 85-100HP pleasure machine to a little faster, higher power to weight ratio cross country best knot per dollar speedster, you have to be a little more "out in front" of the airplane in all phases of flight, and especially on landing. Good brakes are a good thing to have. You'll get used to it - It's like, totally more funner... 
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| Author: | pacer18a [ Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
On the topic of dual brakes as I am putting N444DD back together I am thinking of not reinstalling the passenger side brake pedals, master cylinders and hoses. It would save a pound or two, reduce clutter, maintenance and the opportunity for leaks at least on that side. They could always be reinstalled later if need be (just take a bit of contorting the body). My Tailwind and Wagabond only have pilot side brake pedals currently. I guess the downsides are resale and bfr, any others I am not thinking of or any strong opinions? Dave |
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| Author: | Jim Mantyla [ Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
Guys, Look at a Stinson 108-3 to see an interesting brake set up. Mine had the master cylinders only on the left side. The right side was connected via mechanical linkages. It works very well and is quite simple. Regards, Jim |
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| Author: | Steve H [ Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dual brakes |
My Cessna 140A and 150 right side brakes are also connected via mechanical linkages. My S-18 has left and right side brakes. Steve H. |
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