Thorp Air Command - T18.net

Supporting Owners, Builders and Pilots of the Thorp T-18 and its variants.
It is currently Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:50 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Does your Op Limits approve you for Aerbatic Flight
1. Yes 46%  46%  [ 6 ]
2. No 46%  46%  [ 6 ]
3. I Don't know 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
4. I Don't want to say 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 13
Author Message
James Grahn
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:41 pm 
Hero Member
Hero Member

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:16 pm
Posts: 1462
Images: 0
Location: USA
So Ryan, I'm sitting here reading this thread from start to finish and my thought is that your "inspector" do NOT have a choice in the matter. It is YOUR choice to include what you want in YOUR ops limits. The aircraft has demonstrated aerobatic maneuvers since its inception in 1963. If your fed does not agree with that, I would definitely go over his nugget until I found anyone with some common sense. So you telling me a fed can tell my friend Bruce Williams that he cannot do aerobatics in his Extra 300? That doesn't make any sense at all..
How about this, we all send you a copy of our ops limits and you take them and the CAFE report into the fed and ask him to explain why your aircraft cannot have STANDARD Thorp ops limits? That work for you? Mine were issued last year!
Cubes


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Rich Brazell
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:48 pm 
Hero Member
Hero Member

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:33 pm
Posts: 3108
Images: 64
Location: Jamul, CA (San Diego area)
Bruce: I agree about log books , but I believe one member of the group got a ramp check from the FAA and was asked when he last had the required transponder check . I carry a copy of my transponder check right along with the registration and AW cert. right next to my Dirty Harry 44 magnum ! 8) "I feel lucky...Punk ! BOOM !

RB O:-)


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Bill Williams
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:09 pm 
It has always been my understanding that you preform aerobatic manuvers when doing your phase 1 and make log book entries stating such.


Top
  
 
bfinney
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:29 pm 
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:24 pm
Posts: 504
Images: 6
Location: Yelm, WA USA
Bill, only if aerobatics are not forbidden. In a previous Op Limits issued in 1979 for my aircraft is the following section:

9. This aircraft is prohibited from aerobatic flight; that is, an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in the aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration not necessary for normal flight.

_________________
Bruce Finney
N18JF T-18C #262
Yelm, WA USA


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Ryan Allen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:53 am 
Hero Member
Hero Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:10 pm
Posts: 1123
Images: 0
Location: Louisiana
Bruce, what you posted is exactly what my op limits say.

bfinney wrote:
Bill, only if aerobatics are not forbidden. In a previous Op Limits issued in 1979 for my aircraft is the following section:

9. This aircraft is prohibited from aerobatic flight; that is, an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in the aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration not necessary for normal flight.


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Ryan Allen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:05 am 
Hero Member
Hero Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:10 pm
Posts: 1123
Images: 0
Location: Louisiana
Cubes
I like the way you think! I just think this is another case of FSDO ignorance. When reissuing my AW cert and op limits this last time around, they made a big deal about the words "EXPERIMENTAL" not being on the plane and the use of the "X" N number. I explained to them the reason I met this criteria, yada yada, and they told me they would have to call their superiors to see if I could operate this way or not.....thankfully their superiors told them I was good to go and they gave me my A/W cert and op limits. But, it wasn't easy, I had to discuss this issue with them for a long time before they conceded to call their superiors.

Also, when I asked to have night/ifr added to my op limits, they initially balked. They said even if I was capable of flying night/ifr, that the next owner of my plane may not be capable of it, and they had to think about that type of stuff. Now I had the same internal reaction as you are right now, but what can you do. You just gotta proceed diplomatically and hope for the best. But, again, thankfully they decided to issue op limits allowing night/ifr ops.

So, I fear this aerobatic issue will just be another issue to work through, although they have shot me down twice on the aerobatic request so far, it could be a booger bear this time.



James Grahn wrote:
So Ryan, I'm sitting here reading this thread from start to finish and my thought is that your "inspector" do NOT have a choice in the matter. It is YOUR choice to include what you want in YOUR ops limits. The aircraft has demonstrated aerobatic maneuvers since its inception in 1963. If your fed does not agree with that, I would definitely go over his nugget until I found anyone with some common sense. So you telling me a fed can tell my friend Bruce Williams that he cannot do aerobatics in his Extra 300? That doesn't make any sense at all..
How about this, we all send you a copy of our ops limits and you take them and the CAFE report into the fed and ask him to explain why your aircraft cannot have STANDARD Thorp ops limits? That work for you? Mine were issued last year!
Cubes


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
James Grahn
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:18 pm 
Hero Member
Hero Member

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:16 pm
Posts: 1462
Images: 0
Location: USA
Where are you located? I didn't see it in your profile. Anyway, it doesn't matter. If you want a copy of everyone else's ops limits, just ask. I'd be happy to send mine.
BTW, it would be a good idea for everyone to have the latest version of the ops limits. They are much more flexible. For example, if you were to change your instrument panel, the new limits allow you to put your airplane back in phase one via a write up, fly five hours, and take it back to phase two. You don't need to talk to anyone about it.
Cubes


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Ryan Allen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:34 pm 
Hero Member
Hero Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:10 pm
Posts: 1123
Images: 0
Location: Louisiana
I'm in Shreveport, LA. I may take you up on that offer if I cant get 'er done. I'm gonna keep talking to them about it. I have the new style op limits you are talking about, where you put yourself back into phase 1, make the notation and back into phase 2. That is a nice deal. I appreciate the input.


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

[ Time : 0.137s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]