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Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
http://t18.net/thorpforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7373		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  James Grahn [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
So Ryan, I'm sitting here reading this thread from start to finish and my thought is that your "inspector" do NOT have a choice in the matter. It is YOUR choice to include what you want in YOUR ops limits. The aircraft has demonstrated aerobatic maneuvers since its inception in 1963. If your fed does not agree with that, I would definitely go over his nugget until I found anyone with some common sense. So you telling me a fed can tell my friend Bruce Williams that he cannot do aerobatics in his Extra 300? That doesn't make any sense at all..
How about this, we all send you a copy of our ops limits and you take them and the CAFE report into the fed and ask him to explain why your aircraft cannot have STANDARD Thorp ops limits? That work for you? Mine were issued last year!
Cubes
Author:  Rich Brazell [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
Bruce: I agree about log books , but I believe one member of the group got a ramp check from the FAA and was asked when he last had the required transponder check . I carry a copy of my transponder check right along with the registration and AW cert. right next to my Dirty Harry 44 magnum ! 8) "I feel lucky...Punk ! BOOM !

RB O:-)
Author:  Bill Williams [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
It has always been my understanding that you preform aerobatic manuvers when doing your phase 1 and make log book entries stating such.
Author:  bfinney [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
Bill, only if aerobatics are not forbidden. In a previous Op Limits issued in 1979 for my aircraft is the following section:

9. This aircraft is prohibited from aerobatic flight; that is, an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in the aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration not necessary for normal flight.
Author:  Ryan Allen [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
Bruce, what you posted is exactly what my op limits say.

bfinney wrote:
Bill, only if aerobatics are not forbidden. In a previous Op Limits issued in 1979 for my aircraft is the following section:

9. This aircraft is prohibited from aerobatic flight; that is, an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in the aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration not necessary for normal flight.
Author:  Ryan Allen [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
Cubes
I like the way you think! I just think this is another case of FSDO ignorance. When reissuing my AW cert and op limits this last time around, they made a big deal about the words "EXPERIMENTAL" not being on the plane and the use of the "X" N number. I explained to them the reason I met this criteria, yada yada, and they told me they would have to call their superiors to see if I could operate this way or not.....thankfully their superiors told them I was good to go and they gave me my A/W cert and op limits. But, it wasn't easy, I had to discuss this issue with them for a long time before they conceded to call their superiors.

Also, when I asked to have night/ifr added to my op limits, they initially balked. They said even if I was capable of flying night/ifr, that the next owner of my plane may not be capable of it, and they had to think about that type of stuff. Now I had the same internal reaction as you are right now, but what can you do. You just gotta proceed diplomatically and hope for the best. But, again, thankfully they decided to issue op limits allowing night/ifr ops.

So, I fear this aerobatic issue will just be another issue to work through, although they have shot me down twice on the aerobatic request so far, it could be a booger bear this time.



James Grahn wrote:
So Ryan, I'm sitting here reading this thread from start to finish and my thought is that your "inspector" do NOT have a choice in the matter. It is YOUR choice to include what you want in YOUR ops limits. The aircraft has demonstrated aerobatic maneuvers since its inception in 1963. If your fed does not agree with that, I would definitely go over his nugget until I found anyone with some common sense. So you telling me a fed can tell my friend Bruce Williams that he cannot do aerobatics in his Extra 300? That doesn't make any sense at all..
How about this, we all send you a copy of our ops limits and you take them and the CAFE report into the fed and ask him to explain why your aircraft cannot have STANDARD Thorp ops limits? That work for you? Mine were issued last year!
Cubes
Author:  James Grahn [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
Where are you located? I didn't see it in your profile. Anyway, it doesn't matter. If you want a copy of everyone else's ops limits, just ask. I'd be happy to send mine.
BTW, it would be a good idea for everyone to have the latest version of the ops limits. They are much more flexible. For example, if you were to change your instrument panel, the new limits allow you to put your airplane back in phase one via a write up, fly five hours, and take it back to phase two. You don't need to talk to anyone about it.
Cubes
Author:  Ryan Allen [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does your Op Limits allow aerobatic flight?
I'm in Shreveport, LA. I may take you up on that offer if I cant get 'er done. I'm gonna keep talking to them about it. I have the new style op limits you are talking about, where you put yourself back into phase 1, make the notation and back into phase 2. That is a nice deal. I appreciate the input.
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