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| Formation Flying http://t18.net/thorpforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6496 |
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| Author: | Scott Stine [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Richard, One of the things that has always drawn me to the Thorp group, is the experience of the pilots themselves. We, the young bucks, are fortunate to have the opportunity to learn from those who have recieved professional training as pilots.... be that through military service, airlines, or columbian cartel freight service. I personally welcome the critique of my fellow pilots. Even if I think that I know something......it never hurts to review and reinforce. Hopefully your experience with your formation flying friends will not prevent you from passing on your knowledge to the rest of us. As I frequently tell my airport buddy "lizzard" retired naval aviator and builder of 10+ aircraft......my selfish goal is to extract as much info as possible out of your head before you die. Unfortunately knowledge and experience do not pass via osmosis sooooo please pass it on or we may have to forceably suck it out of you. I have learned a lot in my 15+ years hanging out with the Thorp bunch......don't interrupt a briefing......always order the pork chop at Pattys........dont try to re-engineer the T-18...... and most importantly....don't talk to lead unless he is on fire. Thanks to all who teach us building and flying...what you give to us....we will give back to others. BTW....I got a 84% on my formation quiz....looks like I need help on a couple. I think that a formation "clinic" would be a great offering sometime. SS |
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| Author: | Fraser MacPhee [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
I had a reply half written yesterday to this, but got wrapped up in other stuff and..... Scott pretty much summed up everything I had written yesterday. Everything I know about formation flying, I have learned from Cubes, Wonder, Spanky and Gary Green. It is a skill like no other, and what little I have has made me a far better pilot than I ever thought I could be, yet wow, do I have a lot to learn still. I flunked the test, Richard and that awakened me to the knowledge that I already knew anyway - that I need to be far more competent at the formation protocols and not just at controlling the aircraft within the formation. I had an experience last year similar to Richards, when I was asked to fly in a memorial flight for a downed aviator, and during a brief the day before, it became blatantly obvious that the person asked to organize the flight and self designated to fly lead, tho he had some formation experience and is a good stick, did not know how to conduct a briefing and had no plan. It became apparent that I, with my limited experience, had the most experience at formation flight. I am not a feather ruffler per se, but did so and took over lead, as I did not feel safe flying within a formation with a lead who was coming across as wishywashy, not knowledgable and had no backup plan if things went to schmidt. The flight went off without a hitch, but after reading Richard's list, I realize that I did not have it completely together myself as lead and should have, despite having the most formation time and instruction (compared to the other three) from those who know. (one of them still regards me as an arrogant prick for taking over that flight - the other two thanked me privately) So, to sum up, after seeing Richard's comments and list, it has spurred me to become more proficient in conduct a brief, listening to a brief, creating a plan, having a backup plan, and earning the trust of those who allow me to fly with them in formation. There are two self centered things in my life I have done that just tickle me every time I think of them - white water kayaking and flying formation - I've never been more alive and aware than doing those two things. Thanks for that comment Richard - sometimes I need a little kick in the ass to appreciate exactly where I stand in the grand scheme of my little world, and what I need to do to improve that standing. BTW, as most of you know, I sold 886Y last summer to help with some college expenses and have suffered ever since - recent work related benefits and the better than expected independence of Offspring Unit #1 are allowing me to re-enter the flying world again, and with the help of Walton Aviation, I will soon be taking delivery of 633PM, serial number 279-1 (meaning it was rehab'd with all the safety mods) built by Parker Miller. It will be very good to be back in the air, and She Who I Worship is looking forward to be rid of my pouting and sulking duhmeanor. |
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| Author: | leewwalton [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Richard, If you want to post it, send it to me and I'll take care of it. |
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| Author: | leewwalton [ Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Here you go ... [file]FormationFlyingNavalTraining.pdf,2,,0[/file] |
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| Author: | James Grahn [ Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
I think all this discussion about formation flying is great. It should never be attempted without talking to an experianced pilot. The manuals help too, by explaining a lot of the "whys". However, you will never learn what you need from a manual. Read about it, then get in contact with a pilot group that you trust. You need to go through a step by step upgrade process that is deliberate and safe. We teach formation flying in Vegas several times a year. the lead pilots are all ex military, current airline, with there own planes. If there is interest, I'll post when the next date arrives - or we can hold a clinic at a flyin. I usually do not like the flyin format due to too many distractions. Lemme know. |
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| Author: | Fraser MacPhee [ Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
I'd be up for the dates, Cubes - I shall be looking for reasons to let the new kitten purr after a few hours of getting used to her nuances. |
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| Author: | Rich Brazell [ Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
I agree with Cubes. Book work and videos are helpful to learn the procedures and numbers, but stick and rudder work with an experienced pilot is the only way to correctly fly formation. I also agree with a confined formal learning enviroment and not around the BBQ pit with a Ho Ho in one hand and a Silver Bullet in the other. RB |
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| Author: | James Grahn [ Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Do they still makr Ho Hos? With beer? Scotch n figs, ok but hohos n beer? |
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| Author: | Rich Brazell [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Scotch and figs ? Must be something old retired Air Force pilots take to make them feel young again ? Or at least regular. RB |
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| Author: | Jim Mantyla [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Formation Flying |
Guys, Richard's formation flying, training manual is definitely worth a read. We had an accident yesterday in British Columbia where 4 planes were flying in formation and two touched which resulted in two fatalities. Jim Mantyla |
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