Thorp Air Command - T18.net

I forgot to mention I have a few ideas on how one might do this more safely. Regardless, any plane I'd build will be set up to accept a lightweight starter and battery. The hand prop option was just part of the "how low can you go" question, as well as to compare it to the lightest Tailwinds, which were hand propped.

Karl

My Thorp (N872DD) is definitely on the wrong end of the weight spectrum with an empty weight of 1120, but I've got an IO360 with a Hartzel constant speed and a full IFR panel. Personally I'm much happier with the higher power, and I find the resulting higher landing speeds kind of fun. One thing germane to the discussion is that when I restored my Thorp, I moved the bulkhead behind the seats back 2 inches to give myself more legroom. I'm 6'3" and have plenty of legroom and headroom (I have over 2 inches clearance from the top of my headseat to the canopy). As far as the discussion on handpropping, I grew up doing that. In the 70's at the jump club in Xenia, Oh we had a Cessna 180 without an electrical system that we handpropped all of the time, plus for a while we had a Beech 18 that the owner had yanked the electrical system out of to save weight that we hand propped. It was doable, but such a pain that he reinstalled the electrical system after about 6 months. There are hundreds if not thousands of airplanes out there that people handprop safely all of the time. It's the idiots that try to do it without either someone in the cockpit or the tail tied down that cause all of the bad press.

I Have an S-18, I mounted the canopy to miss my headset, I worked on an S-18 for our late friend David Flatter, his canopy was taller than mine. I do have my seats padde up so I can have a clear shot visually over the panel. If I were to get rid of my 4" of foam in my seat then a 78" carcuss would fit just fine. The canopy can be adjusted for height, also, the Canopy frame for the S-18 is taller than the T-18 Canopy frame, I have manufactured a good number of them, I believe it is 1.750 taller and also 2" wider. Canopy height, seat foam and so forth can be adjusted, I am 72" Tall and I have got into some Thorps that I couldn't see over the panel, the seats were lower than mine. If I were to see a Thorp with a 7ft tall pilot stepping out of it, I would not be surprised, I have seen some big folks step out of a Thorp,but of coarse, the bird had been adjusted for them.............Dan

Thank you both for the comments on headroom; they are quite encouraging. I've been planning to start a separate thread on the topic after my son and I had a chance to sit in a T-18 and look at the structure around the cabin. I'll let you know when we've done so.

Karl

It's not simple to pin down weights for comparably equipped engines. Some older Operator's Manuals from Lycoming, combined with current data on their site, suggests that for the low compression versions, the O-290 is (roughly) 18 lb more than an O-235, the O-320 is 28 lb more, and the O-360 is 37 lb more. The power to weight ratio improves markedly with engine displacement (no surprise that).

RB...you are correct (as usual)... light weight T-18 belongs to Stretch. It has a mouse motor and is built according to the as with a bare bones panel, minimal interior, no paint. This does not stop Stretch from making good use of his plane as a practical and fast transportation to his work from the foothills of Calif. The plane is based East and South of Sacramento. I do not remember the weight of the plane, but it is super light. As an aside, An 0-360 powered standard Thorp with minimum panel can weigh less than #950 empty....I am referencing Richard Eklund's T-18 which is almost an exact copy of John Thorp's personal T-18. It even has the cannon style air scoop for the carb, gravity flow fuel system, aluminum wheel pants and aluminum wing tips and of course a mental cowling.

RB...you are correct (as usual)... light weight T-18 belongs to Stretch. It has a mouse motor and is built according to the as with a bare bones panel, minimal interior, no paint. This does not stop Stretch from making good use of his plane as a practical and fast transportation to his work from the foothills of Calif. The plane is based East and South of Sacramento. I do not remember the weight of the plane, but it is super light. As an aside, An 0-360 powered standard Thorp with minimum panel can weigh less than #950 empty....I am referencing Richard Eklund's T-18 which is almost an exact copy of John Thorp's personal T-18. It even has the cannon style air scoop for the carb, gravity flow fuel system, aluminum wheel pants and aluminum wing tips and of course a mental cowling.

I talked briefly with Stretch this afternoon. The phone connection wasn't the best, but I believe he said his plane is 782 lb with a hand propped O-290.

He said a much lighter one has been built, but it has been parted out --I didn't want to take too much of his time and so didn't dig further.

Karl

Picking up on this earlier thread, can anyone point me to a detailed description, photo gallery, web site, etc. documenting a particularly light T-18 and what was done (or left out) to keep it light? Not a discussion of what might be done, but an actual flying example. Thanks!

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Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED

« Voici ce que j'ai fait...vous pouvez en faire autant! »
"This is what I have done...you can do the same!"
--Henri Mignet (1893-1965)

There are pics and even a video of a light weight T-18 . Pretty sure I saw them on this site ? Someone somewhere knows where it is buried .

RB

Thanks, Rich. Another member contacted me by PM to point me to this site and clip -- http://ballico-stretch.blogspot.com and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beR51_2tPIU -- and past posts on the old forum by Mark "Stretch" Batchelor. Lots of little tidbits in there, though it can be little hard to parse out the details from the stream-of-consciousness writing style. If anyone has an actual list or summary of the Mouse Motor Pirates approach, that would be a big help. Cheers, Matthew

Edit: Corrected name from John to Mark.

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Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED

« Voici ce que j'ai fait...vous pouvez en faire autant! »
"This is what I have done...you can do the same!"
--Henri Mignet (1893-1965)

Simplicate and add lightness.

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Bruce Finney
N18JF T-18C #262
Yelm, WA USA

I think you mean Mark "Stretch" Batchelor, Matthew. Stretch is a friend, but I haven't heard from him for quite awhile, nor has he participated in this forum for years. He and one of his friends got real serious about making the lightest weight T-18s, with O-290 "mouse motors".

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

Sorry, John, must have crossed my wires there. Do you or anyone else have contact details for Stretch? I suspect it would be easiest just to give him a call. I would also be interested in learning the identity (builder and plane) of the other Mouse Motor Pirate.

_________________
Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED

« Voici ce que j'ai fait...vous pouvez en faire autant! »
"This is what I have done...you can do the same!"
--Henri Mignet (1893-1965)

You can search for and send him a message on Linkedin. He has a page there.

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)