Thorp Air Command - T18.net

I am thinking about going to tablet based charts. Been using the paper for forty + years, but just not enough room in the Thorp. I am asking what others are using, what kind of tablet (Apple or Android) and what subscription to run. I have flown with Cubes and he won't leave home without his, and since he does this for a living he must know his stuff. So what say all of you ? Please remember I could not download photos onto this website (thanks again for the help Lee) so I am not a computer wizard (just learned that the thing that comes out of the side of the computer is not a coffee cup holder) Please advise.

Thanks Phil
118BC

Checkout Avare for charts

Foreflight is the gold standard. Just about everyone I know (Including my wife!) uses it. There is a subscription fee, and you can run it on 2 iPads and one iPhone. I have it on my phone, she has it on 2 iPads (a standard 10" and a iPad mini, about 7")
I use Avare, it's running on a 7" Nexus (Android) tablet. The Android tablet does cost less than an iPad, and the Avare program is free. !! FREE Charts!!
Avare is not as easy and intuitive as Foreflight, but it is absolutely fine for Finger-On-Map navigation, and offers a lot more as you learn how to access it...
So beg, borrow or buy used off Craigslist, a WiFi enabled android device, tablet or phone, and download Avare, because it's free.
Then whenever you see another pilot with a tablet, ask them (it's probably an iPad with Foreflight) to show it to you.
If your new tablet is able to have a data plan, it will have a phone number and a phone bill. This can get weather, TFRs and data updates enroute. If you just have a cheap tablet without a data plan, you upload via Wifi from your home computer router, or at a restaurant, motel, coffee shop or the FBO at the airport before you take off.
Summary: If you have enough money, use an Ipad and Foreflight. If cost is a concern, get and Android tablet and download free Avare.
Avare is an Application (App) that you get from the Google Play store, which is kind of Off-Putting. You may need to have a computer nerd or a kid put it on for you. After that, you just tap the icon and it opens, then you start using it.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8WaDm ... BfWYx-PSgw
This Youtube link should lead you to 8 tutorial videos from 'DUffy' that will help get you started.

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Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

Hi Phil,
I'm in the process of upgrading my T-18 panel and I wanted to spend as little money as possible on the panel until I made sure I liked the plane and got used to landing it.


ADS-B In:
Original - None
New - I purchased a Stratux ADS-B in device at Oshkosh brand new and assembled for only $150. It has everything you want except, of course, ADS-B Out. This includes WAAS GPS, subscription-free weather, dual-band ADS-B traffic, two antennas, and AHRS attitude. It doesn't have a battery and I'm powering it with ship power. Note that other guys in the forum are taking care of ADS-B out now and are liking the uAvionix equipment for both In/Out. See https://www.uavionix.comproducts/echo-uat/

Electronic Charts / Electronic Flight Bag:
Original - None
New - I chose FlyQ from Seattle Avionics (https://seattleavionics.com/)
Honestly, most people tend to buy the ForeFlight application along with the more expensive Stratus ADS-B receiver. In my case, I preferred FlyQ, although these vendors' features are converging with mostly the same features. In my opinion, you should try out each system (FlyQ, ForeFlight, etc) at Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh and see what you like best. I'm a software guy and know that many times the choice between similar feature sets comes down to which user interface you are most comfortable with. In other words, it operates the way you like the best and isn't hard for you to learn. FlyQ costs $69/year for VFR charts subscription. You can use it on as many devices as you own for that subscription.

Tablet:
Original - None
New - Apple iPad Mini 4.
- Glare: I did a lot of research (see picture of 4 tablets) on this to determine which screen would be most readable in our cockpits with the full canopy. I tended to like Samsung tables because the 10" tablet we got for a client for field use (drilling gas wells) worked super well and the guys really liked them. However, I tested four tablets last Fall to see which was best in full sunlight and was very surprised that the iPad was decisively better. I didn't expect this. What the difference was is that Apple applies a proprietary anti-reflective coating to their screens. Note however that Apple doesn't do this to all their iPads - only some. They apply it to the iPad Mini 4 and the new iPad Pros.
- Size: The iPad Mini 4 has a small 7.75" screen size that I prefer. Many iPad users who have planes with small cockpits prefer the iPad Mini because they can put it on their knee or more easily panel-mount it. A full 10" iPad Pro is very large in a T-18.
- Mount: I used a RAM articulating mount. They are heavy but really solid. It installs with 3 bolts/screws.
- Obsolete iPads: Not worth the trouble. You want a fast processor, at least 128 GB memory and anti-glare.
- WiFi or Cellular: An iPad with cellular is better because you can be sitting at the airport and downloading the latest charts and weather while you're waiting using just the tablet. If you opt for just the WiFi version, you'll have to use your smartphone's hotspot feature or find a WiFi source. I actually bought the WiFi version and use my phone's hotspot.

As for uploading pictures to this site, I've had trouble too, and it seems to work if I scale the size of my picture in Paint to only 25% and save it and then upload it using the size "1280x1024 (19-inch monitor)".

Hope this helps with your panel. Good luck!

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John Twigg N12055 SN.79 Pittsburgh, PA (KFWQ)

I fly with an iPad mini 4 64 GB, using FlyQ EFB from Seattle Avionics, got a life time subscription. To me it (FlyQ) was easier to use than Foreflight. Apple hardware is by far the leading unit in aviation, more users and more aviation apps.

When you decide on a hardware platform, download the apps and give them a try, most have a 30 day free trial period, see what works best for you. See if one of your buddies has an old iPad you could borrow to try before you buy. I started with an iPad 2, my wifes, until it wasn't fast enough for the latest software upgrades. I found that the full size iPad was too large for use on my lap in the Thorp. I have a knee board case from Sporty's, has an elastic strap that raps around my leg and when I'm done flying it has a nice padded cover to protect it when not in use.

Note: I would not go back to paper charts, don't miss em at all, also the FlyQ yearly subscription for VFR charts is $69, a set of paper charts to get from Seattle to OSH 8 years ago was a little over $70.

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Bruce Finney
N18JF T-18C #262
Yelm, WA USA

Thank You Scott, John and Bruce for the help. I am going to go to Best Buy and look at what's available for a tablet. As I said before I'm not very computer savvy, (I still call flight service on the telephone for weather) but the paper charts while flying the Thorp seem to have a life of there own, taking over the cockpit and refusing to be folded back up in any sense of order. Are any of these programs usable for IFR ? I do fly IFR (in a different A/C) quite a bit, still using the paper NOS approach plates and if I'm going to get "new and improved" I think it may be best to only use one system. I still will keep one of the unruly paper charts in the A/C as a security blanket, just because I'm old !!!

Thanks again Phil
118BC

My experience with the different tablets is the Samsung Tab series (Droid) have the brightest screen in sunlight. Take them out in the direct sunlight.
Droid or Microsoft software is another choice you have to make when choosing the EFB software
I download charts on the Samsung and also carry the paper charts as a backup.
There are several EFB programs that will meet your requirements for IFR, cost seems to be the factor in choosing

FltPlan Go is free, has IFR charts, AND Canadian charts too.

Too bad the functionality isn’t very good.

I have an iFly 740 made by Adventure Pilot which has the brightest screen available. The screen is 7" and has pretty much what Foreflight has plus more. I also have a Ping Buddy ADBS,in device.

Regards,

Jim

Ipad Mini & WingX here -

Yes I have Foreflight on my iPad. I just upgraded to include terrain. When I started this process, the biggie to note was that iPads with cellular had internal gps, whereas the straight wifi did not. Not sure that's the case anymore. Anyway, IPad Air, Foreflight with upgraded terrain, Stratus with ADSB in and out to include WAAS gps. This gives me a backup attitude source.
By the way, Foreflight WAS not used in airline EFBs. It has been straight JeppPlan Pro charts until recently. We are moving to Foreflight as backup charts (yes they have all the IFR charts). I see us moving to Foreflight as primary before too long.
Cubes

I agree with Bruce. Pick a platform then download and play with all the free and trial apps to find what suits you best. I went with Foreflight for my iphone but they recently did an update that made it harder for me to use. Their intent was to make it easier for ipad users to use their iPhone. I don’t know if it did or not but I can no longer find and do things as easily as I use to on my phone.

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Thorp T18
O-320-B3B (160 HP)
68x74 Sterba Propeller

"The joke in aviation is, 'If you want to make a million, you'd better start with £10m.' " -Bruce Dickinson

FWIW, I am using Garmin Pilot - from a chart standpoint I really like it - I find it a little cumbersome in other ways (W&B, electronic logbook) I have a regular size iPad. Being Scottish, and having yet to toss out the Christmas tree (it's just now browning up while decorating the garden, so will dive to the dumpster soon and officially start spring), the program came el freebo with the King "Fingernails on the Chalkboard" IFR online course last year and a one year renewal came with the jepp commercial course, so I will keep it for as long as the subscription lasts. Just got my CFI ticket though, so I may beak down, turn Irish for a day and spend without abandon on beer and a Foreflight subscription. I'll keep looking for a "Buy a case of Islay Single Malt, get a free one year subscription to Foreflight" offer. If you see one, let me know.

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

Hi Phil, as others may have indicated, both FlyQ and ForeFlight (and many others) have IFR charts for a little extra $$ a year.

You may have difficulty getting an iPad Mini 4 in stores like Best Buy or even the AT&T store. The folks at the AT&T store told me Apple doesn't sell them in stores. I got mine by purchasing it direct from Apple online.
To compare the various iPad models, go to https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-9-7
To look specifically at the iPad Mini 4, go to https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-mini-4

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John Twigg N12055 SN.79 Pittsburgh, PA (KFWQ)

Thanks to all !!! Will Foreflight work with a android ? How many GB do you need for the thing to do it's thing??? I checked and all of you are correct that the I pad mini is not sold in any stores that will let you in with only one of your suspenders fastened on your overall's (the apple folks won't let me in the parking lot with my pickup, they say I play my 8 tracks too loud) After you download the Foreflight app does the tablet need to receive a signal to be manually moved ahead as you progress ? I have WAAS GPS and ADSB out in both planes, but am tired of being accosted by the paper charts. I think they have taken on a life of there own, and the printing is getting smaller every year anyway:)

Phil
118BC