Thorp Air Command - T18.net

EAA has hit an all-time low ... now even the ramp is sponsored.

http://www.airventure.org/news/2011/110 ... plaza.html

Any wagers on what's next?

My Vote: "Homebuilt Parking brought to you by Aircraft Spruce"

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

I am very glad you posted that and I have hence refined that opportunity to shamelessly pitch to a refiner the refinement of donating refined products to those of us who use refined products to refine children into being refined aviation individuals through the Young Eagles program.

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

You know what makes these airplanes fly......funding.......no bucks....no Buck Rodgers. You cant fund airventure on bratwurst sales alone....not even with the volume of brats that you eat Lee. As long as we dont hear this years homebuilders forums are sponsored by masengil.....i'll be fine.

SS

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Scott Stine
Vincennes, IN
812-881-7923
Arrow 545WA

I hate to bust your bubble, but for many years this area WAS known as "AeroShell Square." The selling happened a long time ago.

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

Ouch, once again the Col. sets things straight. I'd still pay double the EAA dues to go back to the old days when EAA was about experimental aircraft instead of a 51 week prep to Oshkosh, er "Airventure"

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Heck, we gotz a ballpark named after a dog food store...PetCo-Park ! [:p]

RB

FWIW, I'm really looking forward to my long yearned for first time at OSH this year and the optical orgasm of nothing but airplanes for a full week, but truth be known (and I know others who feel the same), at a small fly-in, with happy individuals of like minded intent, flying and talking **** about airplanes and former flying x-ploits with good people is where I am in glorious harmony with my maker. Such as the fish fry in the fall - now that's what aviation (to me) is all about - In close formation with some of you and a can of comet won't wipe the grin off my face. I can do without all the corporate fluff.
It doesn't take EAA for us to fly youngsters via Young Eagles. IT doesn't take EAA to facilitate T-18 gatherings. EAA isn't a necessity to safely maintain and fly our T-18s.
But as I see it, it helps to have a large org of common vision and to embrace corporate America and it's buckage is a good thing, as with funds, EAA can fight the ever present encroachment of some bureaucrats (and their lust for regulating when one can pass gas, let alone fly an aircraft) I've learned quite a chunk from the magazine as well, but I hope we've seen the last of the "Selecting a twin" articles and such.........

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

I'm with Fraser in that I love the small fly-ins most of all, but I also thoroughly enjoy the Oshkosh experience. They're two different things, but both wonderful experiences that I look forward to. Of course OSH isn't what it used to be, but what is? In some ways it's better & some worse than the old days. At Oshkosh you can see the most wonderful and wide array of everything imaginable in the world of aviation. You see good friends from all over the world who you might never otherwise see. You can see and touch all the newest things for aircraft. There's a whole week (or more if you're a volunteer) of good times & camaraderie, Theater in the Woods, beer @ Kelly's, great air shows, fly-market, a wonderful museum, fish-frys, seaplanes... everything. I even like looking at the latest Shelby Mustangs. I'm just like a big kid in a candy store.

I don't personally like the new large format of Sport Aviation so much, and I too miss the days when Jack Cox was at the helm. I do think it's improving now from the first "new" issues (and also perhaps taking a step or two back), and I'm glad we have Kitplanes. It covers much more of what I really enjoy reading about.

Young Eagles? Sure we flew kids before that, but I believe it was only a tiny fraction of the numbers that have been exposed to flight in a small airplane since the program started. I have some problems with the concept, & haven't flown as many kids as I should have, but I can't think of a better way to do it. We've had some real success stories in my chapter (#43) due to Young Eagles.

I love Oshkosh!

John Evens N71JE
Arvada, CO

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

All good points!

John Evens as always throws his PMA (positive mental attitude) at the topic and looks on the bright side of EAA/"Airventure". All true, Kelley's is still there, as is the airshow, air shows, fly-market, a museum, etc. and thankfully many of what was "Oshkosh" still exists (no thanks to EAA though).

Fraser, as someone who will be first experiencing the event this year I envy you. You will enjoy it and you will also not know what you are missing. Of course you are right, nothing beats the Kentucky Dam type fly-ins .. fish frys and all.

Scott, another good movie reference but I disagree, look at EAA's annual report. The sponsorship of the Airventure grounds brings in less revenue than private donations. If the dues were raised a tad we could dispense with all of the corporate crap. and not have to fight for the right to park our airplanes on the flightline. But that's much like raising taxes I'm sure EAA has learned from their friends in Washington that's not a popular idea.

So guys remember that when the homebuilt parking is in danger of being moved back off the flightline to make more room for corporate displays, it's not because EAA just HAS to do it to pay the bills, it's because an organization called the "EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association" cares more about their corporate relations and $$ then actual experimental aircraft.

A great man (who happened to be a member of the worlds greatest band) once said "changes are not permanent but change is" how true. That does not mean that all change is good though.

I remember ...

* When Oshkosh (not "Airventure") used to be about people and airplanes ...

* When the attraction for people was the aircraft parked out along the flightline ...

* When you had to be an EAA member just to get access to the airplanes.

* When the people attending the event respected the airplanes and the hard work that people put into them. Now we actually need volunteers patrolling the area to protect the airplanes from the public. To remind people that smoking around avgas is not such a good idea.

* When the main gate was an arch that led you to airplanes and you could walk north or south and see homebuilts as far as the eye could see, not REO Speedwagon, Ford Motor Cars, Scott's lawn fertilizer displays and amusement park rides...

* When the entire grounds felt like they were there to support people and the airplanes that flew in ... not the people paying at the gate.

* When the president of EAA (Paul) cared enough about his members to return a call, letter or call a sick man in the hospital to check on his progress (do you think Tom or Hightower would do that?). Incidentaly I cannot even get an actual person to respond to my emails, last time I had to get a fellow T-18'er to pull some strings to get an email through to the editor, and even then nothing came of it. Now I cannot even get a response from anyone.

I miss the old days ...

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Lee, I agree completely. My favorite hat (after my T-18 hats) is from Paul's SAA -
Sport Aviation Association held at Frasca Field, Urbana, Illinois. Too bad that
Did not survive.

Bob Berning
N6571B

All true Lee, but "The Good Ole Days" are now. I can remember when gas was 25 cents and a Mickey D's was a dime. [:0] 20 years from now we'll look at $4.00 gas as "The Good Ole Days." Get the "Good Ole Days" now while you're still here ! Saw a B-17 fly over the house yesterday...now that was some of the "Good Ole Days !" [8D]

RB
NX115RX

Rich,
You are correct but we're not talking about inflation or the price of a finite commodity that every developed nation is trying to get their hands on.

We're talking about EAA, an organization that does many good things but in my opinion has lost its way. Don't get me wrong I support EAA, but it is no longer what Paul conceived ~60 years ago, it's an aviation organization whose purpose is to one, make money and two, promote aviation at all levels. No longer a network of chapters meant to aid those building airplanes but a network of aviation promoters Young Eagles etc. Again don't get me wrong ... those are good things.

Does it not strike anyone as odd that when Paul stepped down from managing "Oshkosh" that it became "Airventure", no longer a fly-in with an afternoon airshow but an Airshow/Convention with some annoying little airplanes parked in the foreground (or potential commercial display space), an aviation amusement park. At the same time Paul tried to start his own organization The "Sport Aviation Association" in an attempt to rekindle what had been lost by EAA. I'm not so certain the SAA effort failed, I think it's more likely that his son asked him to shut it down. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there (especially then) that would follow Paul anywhere at it's peak it had 2000 members ... that's a lot!

Also that Jack Cox left EAA to start focus on his own magazine (which looked and felt a lot like the old Sport Aviation) after the publication has obviously started heading in another direction.

My point is not that EAA is bad or that Airventure is not fun, only that the home builders/kitbuilders,antique and classic owners builders and restorers no longer have an organization to call their own and that Tom and now Hightower have a different vision than Paul did for EAA. I feel really bad for Paul, he is/was 100% EAA or at least what it was.

I think perhaps the time has come to try an SAA type of thing again, something tells me that if may have a fighting chance in 2011.

Just my opinion.

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

OK...you win. I'll go take a nap now.

Lee, Amen to that. I have been a member of EAA since "66 (#23198) and really miss the old school. Also miss Jack Cox already. I suspect a new organization will spring up to fill the void left (abandoned) by EAA. Steve Hawley

*** admin posted for Steve Hawley ***

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Forum Administrator

Lee, I think you nailed it, I have spoken to a few fellows in my area and they all feel pretty much the same way about the EAA and the direction it has taken, it`s all about the money.(In my opinion)

lance38dt