Thorp Air Command - T18.net

To answer the OP's question, I recently bought a Dynon D-10a off the Vansairforce classified ads.
I installed it in 'Fiesty' yesterday, in place of the attitude indicator.
Gotta love that Exerimental Aircraft experience!! This would have been sheer torture in a certified plane.
So having the True Airspeed on display, instead of using the E6B was an eye opener. My little O-290 ship does 175 MPH @ 2300 MSL.
Not as bad as I thought.

_________________
Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

Hey Lee,

For your RAM Mount are you using the standard 3" sockit to sockit arm or the longer 5.1875" arm?

_________________
Matt Smith
Des Moines, IA
55RC

I'm sorry to be so slow posting a pic of the Dynon Garmin mini upgrade:

_________________
Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

I have seen a few panels that are ALL glass (no back up "Steam Gauges.") . What do you do if you loose all electrical power or the main EFIS panel dies ? If you are VFR... attitude, heading and bank angle are not a primary concern, but what are you using for airspeed ? If you have a separate GPS you can use that for a ball park airspeed ?

RB

Rich,
I'm with you on this. But I just started this EFIS thing with the Dynon D-10a as you see in the picture.
I still use the mechanical airspeed and turn co-ordinator the most. what I am doing now is this:
I refer to the EFIS after I look at the steam gauges!
As Marilyn & I gain confidence in the EFIS, I suppose we will shift over to it.
I will probably always keep some important steam gauges in the panel. I look at EFIS as a replacement Attitude Indicator, and keep the remaining steam gauges.
Right now I am trying to justify removing the vacuum pump and DG. On the Vans Forum, a post said he shed 10 pounds when he removed the vacuum system! On a T-18, that is significant. On an O-290 T-18, probably more so...

_________________
Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

Scott: Having flown the AirBus with the EFIS it is an AMAZING situational awareness tool ! HOWEVER on one flight we had the EFIS screen freeze up (on the F/O side) with regard to part of the display ! We were able to cross reference what we had on the EFIS display with the miniature "steam gauges" on the Captain's side of the panel...airspeed, attitude and ILS/VOR. This was a flight from KPHX to KCLT... about 5 hours. DO NOT depend on your EFIS for 100% of your flight data ! Regarding our Day VFR T-18 flights I would recommend at a minimum a Steam powered A/S indicator.

My panel is 100% electric . No Vac pump, etc. 10 pounds probably ? In the event I loose total electrical my GPS has a back up battery than can last about 3 hours and provide GPS ground speed, heading and altitude...as well as map data. I know GPS ground speed is not the same as IAS, but with pitch and RPM that you have practiced over time, you can make a safe VFR landing .

RB

I know of one guy (will remain nameless) who was so itching to go fly he flew his Thorp with no panel installed ... no even a compass!

_________________
Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

the YouTube video of a T-18 making a power-off landing had a panel that was nearly as bare as you describe.
I started with a Dynon D-10a because it fits the existing hole, is mature technology with a top reputation, is cheap, easy to install and use, and it's cheap. (Compared to other EFIS units)
I'm new to EFIS, so a simple system is good for a beginner, I am a local flier, seldom farther than a tank of gas, but sometimes a few states away. Maybe we will go farther now that we have the T-18, then more cockpit resources will be nice.

_________________
Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

I believe the video you describe was of Balco Stretch (sp) and his AC ? It was a bare bones machine (interior wise) from the pics I have seen . If you had a glass of water for a horizon and a plumb bob I guess you could go fly ?

RB

I could not agree more with Rich ! What happen when the day it will come (and be shure it will come !) when the EFIS it will quit. I was with myself in this situation flying with the friend on a Lancair and also I heard that this happens to the

Both Ira and Dean have their EFIS backed up, Ira has a slick little Garmin unit, Dean uses an I Pad. I have The steam Guages and two GPS units, both tied into AC power but will go on Battery longer than I will. The difference in the weight of Deans Panel and my own must be at least 30 pounds, the weight advantage is very obvious. he also has one of those modern radios that is all but weightless, it is a very nice unit. I don't think we have an Idea yet about what technology will bring to the market in the future,the steam Guages are with us now and very functional Just speaking for myself I really like having the ole bugers as they can be read in a split second. They will however go the way of the Dodo as this has already started. Technology has already out dated paper charts printed directories and such. The future will get very interesting, The US can now be navigated with a cell phone, 5 years ago who would thought.............Dan

As long as we fly Day VFR you can use pitch and power w/o the use of any instruments...I am not saying go out and do that, but I think if you ask a Cub guy that's how they probably do it most of the time. I know after flying a particular A/C for many years you know pretty much know where to put/set the throttle(s) for any given flap setting and the correct "over the nose" picture for T/O and landing w/o looking at the AS indicator ( a quick peak is OK )...assuming light winds ! The point I am trying to make is...technology is a wonderful thing, but batteries and electrical systems will ALWAYS fail at the wrong time...EFIS/Cell Phone/I-Pad/GPS, Alternators, Ship's power. Worst case what do you have for a back up ? A second EFIS on the Co-Pilots side that you can't see ? What if you end up in the goo...I know you didn't plan it , but low time pilots have and will do it . Now your screen goes dark..."Holy Bat Man ! " Even the most advanced A/C in the world with EFIS technology have standby pitot/static instruments...why is that ? I use the I Fly 700 GPS and it is a great little unit that has every chart in the US, airport diagrams, TRF's, terrian avoidance, etc. , but if it goes TU (and probably will at some time in flight) I still carry an Air Chart binder (paper) to get me to the nearest suitable field. As a minumin I would have a pitot/static AS indicator, T & B and an altimeter to complement my "EFIS." The new Dyon pocket EFIS might be a good option...neat little unit ! Probably making a big mountain out of this subject , but just trying to share my MANY years of experience . Just my 10 cents worth. Over and out .

RB

Agreed Rich, experience is something we all need to hear from, we are lucky to have Guys such as yourself to hear from with experience in areas where some of us have only heard and talked about and have not yet experienced for ourselves. The pleasure is mine to listen to the Voice of experience, and I value the words of those that have been there and done that very much,your 2cents is worth far more than that to me....thanks ole Buddy.....Dan

Dan pointed out that Steam Gauges are going "the way of the Dodo" and I think that is correct.
The manufacturing and calibrating of those mechanical gauges is expensive compared to the mini computer with sensor. Think of the finely crafted Swiss watch, which was replaced by the cheap stylish digital Swatch.
So I think individual gauges will be replaced with modern mini computer gauges, which have already entered the market. consider MGL who made a cheap series of gauges in black & white, for ultra lites before moving up to the exotic offerings we see today. Also Aerospace Logic makes single fuel, EGT , and CHT gauges for up to 5 fuel tanks and how many cylinders do you want this thing to read?
These modern individual gauges will replace the spinning, grinding, leaking, old gauges surrounding the main EFIS unit, one- by - one as they fail.

_________________
Scott Emery
EAA Chapter 326
T-18 N18TE

I think it is going to be many, many years before the FAA will allow an IFR certified A/C with only an EFIS panel w/o the basic steam panel as a back up . In the experimental community if you want an EFIS only panel for your VFR airplane, go for it !

RB