Thorp Air Command - T18.net

John : It won't make me look any better and you still have to pay for dinner !

RB

It was a great flying weekend. We buzzed up to Pismo for lunch. Met a Thorper, Rich from Pismo.

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http://www.dixiefriedfabrication.com/

I got a message from Lou, asking where the flow rates for K&N filters could be found, as he was wondering now if the one he is using had a high enough rating, and the relation of physical size of the filter to flow rating. I thought I should share the conversation with the group...

"Hey Lou,
Good question. Those figures are published by many suppliers, but K&N themselves have nothing on their site. It really aggravates me when a company brags about having the highest flow rates, but won't give you any actual numbers. Flow rate is definitely directly related to filter media size/area and type. The shell size is not necessarily a good way to judge the actual filter area of the media inside. I would write or call K&N, and ask for some actual numbers. The numbers will be a range, since flow rate is directly related to pressure differential and temperature/viscosity - two things the filter manufacturer cannot control. I mentioned that FRAM filters were not very good when we were doing our tests, but that was a long time ago - things have changed. I know that there are many very fine filters on the market now, including some FRAM units. I guess if I was designing an adapter for the use of auto filters now, I would rely on comparisons & testing done by independent groups who would supply actual accurate numbers & results. K&N is not necessarily the very best choice, although I think that they are good filters."

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

Without discounting John's research and input, has anyone heard of a filter biffing it, due to marginal or restrictive flow rates with Lycs?.....though my current MLM is still only of two screen config, MLM 1 with her 0-360 had a Fram PH-11 remote for 2 years before me and the first 2 or 3 oil changes before I switched over to K&N - no problems with the Fram - I switched merely to have a little peace of mind knowing I was spending what I could to protect my investment - though I have limited experience within the subject matter, I have spoken with two others running 0-360s with K&Ns and we three have never heard of an oil filter incident, regardless of filter make.

Hum,

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http://www.dixiefriedfabrication.com/

Another good question. I sure haven't, Frase, but keep in mind that if a filter is bypassing because of inadequate flow capability or a bypass check valve designed with too low of an opening pressure setting, you're probably not going to ever realize it, unless you see something happening like what Scott described, where particles are getting past the filter & causing issues. If it is bypassing though, you won't be filtering the oil like you should, and the long term results will be greater engine wear or failure. Actual rupture of a filter, for instance, is probably extremely rare, regardless of the quality of the filter. All of the failures I saw when testing filters, involved failure of the rubber gasket. When choosing something non-aircraft certified, I just wanted to find the best available at the time for the application. Maybe a greater shell thickness or a higher quality base plate & threads, etc. is overkill, but it helped to give me confidence in what I was doing. Again, there are many other very good filters available nowdays. Your FRAMS may have been of high quality... the ones I tested 20 years ago were not.

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

That would be my question ? How would you know if the filter is bypassing or not ?

RB

As I said, you probably will not know. That's why it's important to choose a filter with adequate flow capability, quality, & bypass setting for the application. My main point in this whole drawn out conversation, is that there are definitely filters out there that don't meet my quality standards for my airplane, and probably not yours either, and the end result of using them might be similiar to, or worse than using an inferior type of oil, for instance. When I was making my adapter all those years ago, I saw a lot of guys using filters that I knew were questionable at best. There are a lot of "racing grade" filters now that are probably like what I was looking for and chose at that time.

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

Probably why I'll stick with Aviation filters .
RB

I know for a fact far beyond the shadow of a doubt there is no way I am getting any bypass whatsoever when that lycasaurus is started up bone cold with that thick chevron being shoved throug the gallies at a restrictive rate of 100 PSI showing on the oil pressure Guage and the cilinder head temp is minus 20 and there is frost on the wingtips!!!!! I don't think I have a filter, will check this weekend to make sure wha da they look like anyway???? Dan

You definitely have a filter. What you're talking about looks like extra weight & complexity. Dan & Rich... you both smart guys!

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

That Kitfox comming along John? I will bet its a jewel!!! Dan

I left the engine screen in place when mounting my remote filter. Admittedly, the only way I get oil to the remote filter is when the vernitherm opens. However, I have piece of mind that I still retain the original Lyc screen.
Cubes

I think that's a great way to go, Cubes.

Dan, the "John" Fox is coming along fine. Not much of a jewel right now... more like some kind of a stone in the rough.

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

I talked to a K&N tech this morning, he did not have much info but promised to look into it and get back to me with what ever info he could find. I will keep after him.

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