Thorp Air Command - T18.net

I was wondering how many Thorps out there have the aerobatic flight item listed on their operating limitations. I have received 2 new AW certs/Op limits since I bought my Thorp, and each time I ask them to consider approving the aerobatic flight item in the operating limitations. But, my FSDO doesn't seem too keen on allowing that line item for aerobatic flight. I was curious, how many of you guys have been approved for aerobatic flight in your op limits?

My Op Limits issued 4/9/2002 allows aerobatic flight as follows complete with misspellings:

10. This aircraft may conduct aerobatic flight in accordance with the provision of 91.303. Aerobatics shall not be attempted until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactorily controllable and in compliance with 91.319(b). The aircraft may only conduct those aerobatic maneuvers that have been satisfactorily accomplished during flight testing and recorded in the aircraft amintenance records by use of the following or a similarly worded statement: "I CERTIFY THAT THE FOLLOWING AEROBATIC MANEUVERS HAVE BEEN TEST FOLWN AND THE AIRCRAFT IS CONTROLLABLE THROUGHOUT THE MENEUVER'S NORMAL RANGE OF SPEEDS AND IS SAFE FOR OPERATION. THE FLIGHT TESTED AEROBATIC MANUEVERS ARE:________________, ________________, ______________ AND ______________".

_________________
Bruce Finney
N18JF T-18C #262
Yelm, WA USA

Mine has similar wording. You may have to go back to Phase I testing to include aerobatics.

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

My t-18 was given new flight restrictions in 1997 and include rolls, loops, spins. I was told the maneuvers were all demonstrated during the first 40 hours.

Chuck N25002

I had to redo my OpsLimits last year when I changed the N number - the old ops limits did not have any A-maneuvers approved - I don't have them before my beady little eyes at the moment, but I think I just wrote the standard maneuvers in there that I had already demonstrated (loops, aileron rolls, lazy eights, split Ss, and unintentional inverted flat spins)....the FSDO guy looked at me and said...."Sun...yoo gonna doo any lomcevaks"....I said "only in the bedroom" and he signed off on the new OpsLimits.

My FSDO guy was a little confused when I brought him my request to change the N-number - he was a virgin N-number changer and was very skeptical and inquisitive as to how the world of experimental aviation operated. My patience, attention to detail and charm facilitated a smooth, amicable, yet slow go of getting through it.

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

yep, ok, that's what I figured. Its a local FSDO issue. thanks for the input.

Fraser,
You can change your N number via the FAA website anytime. As you know you first have to reserve it then make sure the one you want is available and mail them $10. You can then write a letter requesting the change and several weeks later receive your new registration. Problem is you still need your new N number on your ops limits and restricted airworthiness certificate. That's where the FSDO comes in. They will create one for you on the spot (after a few questions

If you didn't have aerobatics in a logbook entry during the original Phase 1, now would be a good time to add them and get a test area assigned. One more good excuse to go fly!

V/R
Smokey

PS: Speaking of acro....
http://www.airspacemag.com/video/The-Se ... ice=iphone

my FSDO will not issue the aerobatic line item so that I have the option of making the appropriate entry in my logbook for aerobatic flight. Its a bummer. I guess I could seek out my FSDO's higher ups, but I don't want to offend my FSDO.

Ryan: Let me tell you about an interesting experience I had with my local FSDO . Is was regarding obtaining my Repairman's Certificate for the S-18 ( April 2011) . After 27 years of keeping records , photos and a construction record with regard to NX115RX I called the local FSDO and told the gent I would like my Repairman's certificate and asked him what I needed to bring to the office to get my ticket . He said bring EVERYTHING ! I bought all the engine/prop/construction/logs along with many photos showing the building process . The stack of documents was 1 foot high ! Due to 9-11 I had to make an appointment to get in the door of the FSDO . Once inside I was greeted by a lady that asked why I was there ? I said I had an appointment to get my "ticket ." She asked for my driver license and went to the copy machine . She returned with the appropriate forms which I filled out (all this time I had 27 years of documents on the counter) . A few minutes later an "inspector" returned , looked over the paper work and asked me with it was correct (the whole time my foot high documents were still on the counter) , I told him the address was incorrect and they had to re do the ticket , it came wrong not only once, twice , but three times ! In the end we both reviewed the certificate and found it to be correct . I signed the repairman's certificate as did the FAA inspector . NOT ONCE did he look at 27 years of documentation that I had on the counter ! I left not wanting to wake the sleeping bear !

I guess bottom line is find another FSDO inspector . " They are like a box of chocolates , you never know what you will find inside ! "

When I got home Sil said the Zip Code was wrong !

RB

Smokey - all went well really - the FSDO guy was just not well versed in the X-Plane world - at first, he wanted me to fly off the phase one hours again, at which point I really wished I looked like my wife 30 years ago and had no shame - it's complicated - the logs showed the plane completed and phase one'd in 1970 - the plane was then taken out of service in 1979 and mods completed (counterweight in the stab and others) over the course of 6 months and returned to service - as it was never put through a "test phase" after that - this threw the FSDO guy a curve he did not know with how to deal - this was brought to light due to the serial number on the current registration being 279-1....the -1 being the mods completed. Patience, and Dale Carnegie came in quite handy for a few weeks as I gently nursed......YUK!!....I mean used persuasion to assuage his fears of running afoul of the federal bureaucracy to which he is beholden. It all worked out and I have my new N-number. I know of other stories out there where things did not go well, or authority was imposed and attitudes got sour. Not so in my case - punches were only thrown during times of extreme frustration and only to inert and unfeeling objects out of site of everyone....

_________________
Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

An accurate paper trail is key to dealing with the FAA . Proper and up to date logs books...airframe, engine, prop, etc. Accurate paper work will make your life with the FAA so much easier . How many of you carry the 24 month transponder check/sign off paper work in your AC ?

A cool and collected attitude with a warm and friendly handshake will set the mood ! After 40 years I only had one inspector set my ass on fire ! It did not go well for either of us . I got a new Sim check ride evaluator the next day . All went well and we had a good time ! As good as can be expected in a PC check ride !

Tito might have saved the day !

RB

The 24 month transponder check/sign off paper work is in the aircraft log which stays in the fire box in my closet until it is annual condition inspection time and only comes out for requisit signitatures. Logs are not manditory in the aircraft. That's my story and I'm stickin with it.

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Bruce Finney
N18JF T-18C #262
Yelm, WA USA

My ops limits allow for Mach 2.0, so I typically wont go past 1.9 and if I do (I don't tell anybody). I will have to have a talk with the plane and esplane that cause its not written in the book that it doesn't raelly have the capability of going upside to the down side and so forth.....Dan

I agree Rich, I'll keep trying to get it done. I'm in no rush, so maybe I can get it worked out slowly and courteously.

Dan I agree with you too, you are also right. But I just figure that I'll try and get that paperwork all squared away, whenever it (hopefully) happens. It would always bother me.

We are all in agreeance here because I agree with you both, Best to have the paperwork, no good having any grief over paperwork......after all........when the paperwork is done then we can go a Flyin!!! This in itself I consider to be a Blessing!!! Oh, and don't take me serious on that Mach # I was just Joshin..............Dan