Thorp Air Command - T18.net

All,
I had a conversation with one of our members last night about the "price range" post. Don's post is obviously an extension of that conversation, so let me reiterate once again what I said last night and what I said in the post.

First, I did not make up those prices .. the market did. Those are not pulled from thin air, they are the actual range of Thorps sold that I have records on over the past several years .. plain and simple .. it's math. Also remember I've personally sold or "brokered" a half a dozen Thorps over the past few years ... half of those I had a personal stake in, and yes none of them sold outside that range.

Second, as I stated in the original post, of course there are exceptions!!!! Outstanding Thorps will fetch more, no where did I state that those prices were set in stone, nor do I feel the market is going to be skewed by my post. If you have one of these airplanes then price it accordingly!

Third, this is not Thorp specific, steam powered (as 99.9% of all Thorps are) RV's go for 35-45K, Older RV's go for comparable prices to Thorps. The fact of the matter is that most (not all) Thorps are old ,age and vintage panels are points for negotiation from the buyers point of view. Most buyers nowadays want glass, they either buy with glass or plan to factor a glass panel retrofit in to the price.

Once again so that we are not confused I'm not advocating for keeping the prices down, the fact of the matter is that Thorps have always (for as long as I can remember) been priced below what we think they are worth. This very same conversation has been going for decades. So it's not "support" or "marketing" it's just the way things have been since early on. Go back and look at the classifieds in 70's-90's Sport Aviation for reference.

With reference to todays market we're not alone, most, plans built aircraft are not being sold for the sum of their parts. That's sad but true. I know of several Thorp owners out there who have simply chosen to never sell their airplanes (EVER) for this very reason.

_________________
Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Just an Opinion: It would seem that the thorp has gotten more and more popular notice in the last few years, would anyone agree? Dan

At the end of the day a Thorp is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, No If.... But's.... or And's about it. End of story.
Double Boom. How do you like that rich? I hope there's no copyright infringement.

I second that, Dan

I think Lee is right with regard to the value of an early RV vs. a T-18 . Steam Gauges ,etc. probably put us in the same ball park . A "new" RV with a glass cockpit (probably at least 1/3 or more the cost of the total AC) sets us older Thorp owners apart from the "high tech" crowd ! An EFIS cockpit is nice to have and will give you great situational awareness , but so will a good GPS like my iFLY720 for about $9,000 less ! Tired BOOM ! AYE Carumba !"
RB

This issue is a sore subject for some and may too afraid to speak up to try and figure out how to increase the value of our airplanes and get support needed for those wanting to or still building. Yes, it could be discussed until the world ends if you believe the world will end come January.

All points well taken and I do believe some or you will agree that we disagree. After all, these are opinions which we are all entittle to. You are right Rich when you cite that the market will pretty much dictate what any given airplane may, and I do say may sell for...not necesarily what is worth. I mentioned in my last post that the buyer will pay or not pay. The seller may be williness to settle for the offered price or wait until he gets his diaper changed to sell it. I still say that as owner of MY airplane, I alone have the right to say what my airplane is worth regardless of what it may bring.

Richard Ecklund provides T-18 specific parts such as fuel tanks, main beam fittings, landing gears, horizontal pivot fittings, ribs for those not wanting to fabricate their own and so on, while Mike Archer was supposed to provide similar parts in addition to S-18 specific parts. You say Mike want to retire. Where or when would anyone get parts until he retires? There were rumors about Classic having been sold, but guess that an issue of national security, because no one talks about it. There are builders out there wanting parts and there are certain parts specifically for the S-18 they need and I for one want to build replacement items for my airplane.

In closing, to me, my airplane is worth $50K. Anyone care to take a bite? Has been hangared since day one and only time it lives outdoors is when is flying or visiting other airports. You see, everything is for sale.

_________________
In CowTown USA,
Don D-Day
NX18DD

I believe that the 50K for a well built Thorp is not too much to ask, there are some that would bring a little more and some that would bring a little less. I just watched a brand new RV 6 trike go for 35K, and it was brand new, had the popular yellow and white paint on it, 360LYk with a fixed pitch, it was spotless and a very good flyer. I would have a hard time taking that for my Thorp and it has no bells no whistles,there are a lot of Thorps better equipped, if I were to price Riches red rocket I would not start at 50k, I believe I would start at 65k and maybe adjust a bit, I believe this to be fair. Ira has a bird equipped as good as any of em, better than most, if I were offered 35K for that one I would be insulted, the Thorp is a serious airplane, properly built, it should be treated as such. This is my opinion,or thoughts, some might agree, and some might think I'm nuts, and that's ok too.....Dan

You are talking my lingo Dan. If people who owns T-18 start the sales bid at the $50K to $65K as you mentioned, maybe buyers will change their tune about going for the T-18 instead of the likes of RVs. When prices are set too low, one can't help think there must be something wrong with it and shy away.

Lee suggested going to the classifies of the '70s-'90s in Sport Aviation and that's a bit way out reason to compare twenty to forty year old data with what today may be. By him setting prices so low, he's hurting owners and aiding buyers. We take care of our own and if someone want to belong to our group, they should buy a Thorp at a good price.

Glass panel Vs. Boiler gauges. Rich, most of the folks I've spoken with not just here in Texas, but in other countries such as troughout the U.S., prefer boiler gauges than sit in a cockpit watching TV. Besides, having one of those TV screens in the panel, could disable an airplane for days and weeks trying to get it repaired if something goes wrong with any feature in the gadget, not to mention the cost. Boiler gauges can continue flying with a simple "INOP" placard over the bad gauge provided is a non essential one or safety of flight.

Folks, I think we need and can be more positive about what our airplanes are worth and strive to raise awareness and enhance appeal for the Thorp. Lets quit selling ourselves too short and start working for the seller. Remember...Anything cheap may not be worth owning.

_________________
In CowTown USA,
Don D-Day
NX18DD

Don : Round vs EFIS ? I prefer round with a GPS for situational awareness ! The Thorp is a "Classic" AC and I liken it to putting an EFIS in a DC-3...not the right thing to do ! Each builder can do their panel to their own specs . Watching TV ? Talking on the cell phone ? "Not the Prudent Thing To Do ! "

RB

The aviation market for good aircraft has taken a beating, as I mentioned the 6 that went for half the cost of the kit, Beechcrafts going for 30k, not a good market. I would hope that this would change in the near future, I saw a 0-290 with 400 hrs on the log go for 1800bucks, seems planes are falling off in value, but the cost of flying and maintaining is going up at least this is the way it would seem. I would hope that all who sell would be satisfied as well as those who purchase....Dan

A newby here, and I have looked at a
couple Thorp's so far.
Since I'm not a teenager I have good memories
Of T-18's at the local airport when I was
A teenager. Most of my flying friends don't know what
Thorp's are.
I plan on getting one and putting a glass
panel in because that's what I've flown
For the last 25 years. Light weight, tremendous
amount of info, and they don't tumble.
I could buy a RV, but I want a Thorp because
I like to be different and I have good memories of Thorps.
There is a lot more variation in build quality
In Thorp's over RV's, that doesn't help average prices.
Looking forward to a Thorp, it just has to be
built well for a reasonable price.
Dave

Dave - what were you flying 25 years ago that had a glass panel?

I have to agree with Rich & Don - I really prefer "steam gauges" over a TV screen in my airplanes, for several reasons including aesthetics. It's very true that more information is available, but honestly I don't need a lot more than what I have... for me it would translate to more looking at the screen & less looking outside. Getting legal for 2020 with ADS-B in & out is looking like being a little easier with some of the panels, but there are other ways to do it, and I'm hoping that more options become available as the deadline approaches... I'm sure they will.

_________________
John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE

I am hesitant to post on this subject but I think I will take a stab at it anyway. As a builder and also someone in the market for a thorp to fly while I finish up my project I agree that our airplanes are under priced and everyone would like to think that a fresh thorp is worth 50k+. However, as in any market I don't care what it is whether it be housing, commodities, or anything else the current trend sets the price. Lee was simply posting facts about how the thorp market has been tending for the past few years to give a potential new thorp owner an idea of what to expect. It is easy to price an airplane at whatever the owner thinks it is worth if they have no intention on actually selling it. I just recently sold an airplane in this market and it stinks. Bad. The truth is if you have or want to sell it "which I'm assuming most of the thorps on the market fall under this category" you might as well come to terms with the fact that you are going to have to price it accordingly compared to similar thorps on the market or you will most likely be sitting on it a while. And when somebody does pick a thorp up cheap look on the bright side it is just one more person to help promote the breed. It's better than that airplane sitting a dark hangar neglected for the rest of its life.

John,
Hawker 800, first generation Honeywell.
Dave

IMHO "in my humble opinion" (for you old fogies). Want to drive the price up for a prospective buyer/builder? Get all the T-18/S-18 parts, plans and people under the same roof (i know, i know, im stating the obvious) If we could demonstrate a knowledgeable supply/support mechanism, it would greatly improve the ah peal and value of this great aircraft. Thats one huge advantage our arch nemesis has!

I make a motion deep pockets Brazel make the above happen...we can use his garage to store all the parts, intellectual property and knowledge (that wont take much room!) Boom!!

Oh, and Rich, I'll give you 20k now for the "Red Rocket" .......before you go into the nursing home! Double boom!!

_________________
Chuck Kincer
Richmond, Me
575CK
KIWI